The Killer Psychologist - Childhood Trauma Unveiled with Dr Dana Anderson

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:00

Coming up in today's episode, you are in for a treat as I talk with Dr. Dana Anderson, forensic psychologist in the USA and host of the Killer Psychologist. It is a fascinating listen as we navigate complex trauma and what it is like to grow up in the states where there are guns everywhere. We look at how she rose above her personal circumstances and how she used determination, commitment, and empathy to have a different outcome for her and her own children. It is a fascinating listen and I absolutely adored it. I hope you find it really useful.

(: 00:38

Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. I had wanted to chat with today's guest for a little while and I am so pleased that we are able to bring you this episode. It is just incredible. It was an absolute pleasure to speak with Dr. Dana and well.... We just had a really wonderful connected talk where everything was slowed down, thoughtful, kind of curious, and I just absolutely loved what we did. So I hope you find it really useful and I would love your feedback. I will catch you on the other side. Hi. Just want to welcome along Dr. Dana Anderson. Hi. Thank you for joining us.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 01:27

Hi, I'm so excited to be here. I had a wonderful time meeting you last time and I'm so excited to connect with other psychologists because sometimes it feels a little lonely.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 01:39

It does. It can do. And we first met on LinkedIn we, because you'd sent me a connection request and we were slipping into each other's voice notes and then I was like, should we just get together and have a chat on camera? That would be really fun.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 01:51

Yes, yes. I love it. A lot can be lost through social media and I like to leave voice messages just so connotation isn't lost in text to just say, hi, I'm happy to meet you, or Let's get together, or something like that. So it seems more personable.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 02:12

I definitely agree. And when we met for a pre podcast chat, and that was a few weeks ago now, wasn't it? And we just had so much fun, didn't we?

Dr Dana Anderson (: 02:23

Yeah. Maybe it's like the bonding of psychologists. I know what you've been through, we've been through the school, the programme, we have some understanding and we're both entrepreneurs now. We've started our own business and I want to learn from others that have not only gotten their psychology degree, but now you're an entrepreneur, you're a CEO, you are making it all on your own. And that is something that we're not taught in school, how to run a business.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 02:58

Absolutely. And I find it really empowering and it almost moves me to tears a little bit to hear you call me a business owner and an entrepreneur and a CEO. And actually to begin with, when I first started, so I started my company in 2019. I was almost a little bit embarrassed of my little business and it was, but actually along my journey, we are currently speaking in, where are we? April? I look at my calendar April, 2024. I would've failed the MMSE on that one, wouldn't I? April, 2024 and I feel so proud. That's been my development, my growth. I'm so proud to be a psychologist, but also to be a business woman.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 03:52

You should be proud because there was a day and time when women weren't psychologists, they weren't accepted, they weren't allowed. The first woman that got her PhD, they wouldn't recognise her as being a psychologist. And I always think of that, right? How would you like to be her? I think she'd be proud of us now.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 04:22

So her cohort would've been able to call themselves psychologists, but she wouldn't, or it was an individual PhD, so she wasn't able to get that title.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 04:32

All of the men that got, I mean historically it was white men, particularly from privileged backgrounds, and they got PhDs and they were psychologists and the first woman who said, I could do this too, she went through the whole doctoral programme and they said, good for you. Good job lady. But she's still not a psychologist. And she's like rude. And so much has changed through the years. And I was raised in a very sexist upbringing and my dad didn't want me to get an education and went through great links to prevent me from getting an education and even mocked and made fun of me even when I was pursuing my master's degree. And he said it was just a waste of my time. Who did I think I was, what was I doing? And I thought, what am I doing? But then I thought, how could I go wrong to seek information?

(: 05:43

How could that be bad? What if I learned something I hadn't known? What if he's wrong? What if we're all wrong? How about I just know more and then I'll decide? And then I remember he definitely didn't want me to pursue psychology. None of my family did. They were very religious and I got ostracised. They thought psychology was the opposite of seeking God. So I was ostracised. So when I got accepted into a doctorate programme, I didn't tell anyone. It wasn't really for anyone, it was just for myself. I didn't need anyone to say, oh cool, you got accepted. It was like, I'm just doing this. So I drove and commuted and I went to school and I didn't really, I was like, I'll just figure this out on my own. It was met with such opposition, but I think if you pursue something, do it for the right reasons. It was for my own knowledge, my thirst for knowledge. And perhaps people in my family were just not educated on psychology. And it really impacted me.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 07:12

And it sounds like you've, who knows, we all need therapy. But it sounds like you've done a remarkable job of not holding that against them. They just didn't know. They didn't know. They weren't in the state to be able to know how incredibly important that would be and how empowering that would be. But they clearly raised a young woman who knew her mind and was determined and focused and is going to, she's got tenacity. She's going to show up for herself and she's going to do what she wants to do regardless of what you think because she knows this is a good thing.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 07:49

Yeah, it's funny. My mom always said, it's funny she said that I was always standing up on the inside and I said, what? You said, when I would tell you something to do, you would do it, but you were standing up on the inside. So I always had this, I don't want to say attitude, but I'm always sort of questioning authority and questioning everything. I think that can be a good thing. I'm not to be an independent thinker and to question things, if you are going to be an entrepreneur and branch out on your own, you're maybe not a rule follower. You're not the nine to five working in a prison, a state hospital or something. You're not just a yes sir person. There's problems in the system. And I saw that and I said, well, I have some solutions. I have some good ideas. There's also a lot of unethical things going on, and I'm not just going to comply. I said, no. And that's one of the number one things you're going to see in, I'm going to say forensic psychology, but I think anyone that's worked in corrections, criminal justice, those types of settings, you are going to be exposed to things that are not right. That's a fact. And you need to question not just be compliant or complicit. And so

Dr Marianne Trent (: 09:21

I call it whistle blowing here. I dunno if you have an equivalent term there or whether that's just the same across the USA and the uk, but it's knowing that actually we've got policies for it. We've got whistle blowing policies knowing that if you see something that's not right, that's a danger to somebody or just unethical or not, that you are actually protected as part of the whistle blowing policy to bring that up. The difficult thing is is that though you are in theory protected, it doesn't always obviously go down terrifically well in teams and organisation settings, but I think what you are nicely describing is that we mustn't acquiesce to the temperature of the water. If the water is boiling hot or if it's toxic, we mustn't, this is why students on placement and trainees and assistants and new people entering services can be really enlightening because, and when you join a new service for the first time, because you are asking questions, you are considering, why do we do this?

(: 10:22

Do we need to do this? This doesn't seem quite right. This is different than what I've learned. And so we can update practise, but actually sometimes services are, they don't feel nice to work in, they don't feel like it's respectful to people. It doesn't feel people being shouted at. And what we know actually certainly in prison environments is that that's just going to antagonise people. That's maybe not the best way we could run our services. And that's just one example. But standing up for what you see and speaking out as such, we're advocates. We, it's such important work that we do.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 10:57

Absolutely. Yes. And whistleblower is right. So we have that here in the states too. And I'm in California and I was a whistleblower and you do have to stand up for what is right even when no one else is, but, and of course we have ethics as psychologists, but you're definitely going to be challenged in these larger corporations and settings where over time they've adapted certain behaviours that they believe are acceptable. And as a psychologist, I feel like an X-ray, you can see everything that you couldn't see before or I wear contacts, so when I put on contacts, I can see so much clearer 2020, right? I feel like as a psychologist, when I go, I see things that people can't see. Do you feel that way? Do you feel like

Dr Dana Anderson (: 11:52

I see them clearly and sharply sometimes and I can't not

Dr Marianne Trent (: 11:57

See them? I absolutely do, but I don't always tell them that I can. So I dunno if you have this in me. Exactly, yes, yes. People often say, are you analysing me or Can you read my mind? And you always say, no, of course not. But it does give you just, I've got a real, to be able to read people quickly and kind of get a feel for them because of the nature of assessments, you can't possibly spend years with somebody. You need to be able to get the information quickly and make judgements against reasonable doubt and the evidence that we know, but also that people are individuals. So I am reasonably quick at connecting people. And I'm not amazing at small talk. I like big talk. I don't know about you, but I like to ask the big questions of people when I meet them. Even if you're in a queue, a restaurant or something. That's what I like best.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 13:01

Oh, I love that. I love asking questions. And a lot of people don't ask enough questions. They just assume they make assumptions, which leads to not accurate information. So really as a forensic psychologist, asking questions is so powerful. And you can ask the most uncomfortable questions and you may be surprised on what they tell you or what you hear, but ask those questions. And as a forensic interviewer, you'll be meeting with people who have murdered, raped, all these things. So just you ask the questions and that's how you can get a lot of really good information. So you're right, even in all my relationships, my most deepest meaningful relationships or close friends or siblings have those deep conversations. Why make it superficial? Let's just get right into it.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 14:14

If I go to personal training, if I go to have a massage or a facial, we are having a proper chat and they're like, oh, I feel like I've got more from this than I've given you. Or I feel like this has been really, really enlightening for me. It's made me think about this in different ways. It's almost like a single session intervention. I dunno if that's a thing in the states, but you might only see somebody once. It's trying to make that time together as purposeful as possible.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 14:44

Singular interventions, that's something I would do and one and done basically throughout my career for suicidal, homicidal interventions, like seeing people in the emergency room for psychiatric holds, all those things. So we get one chance, one opportunity. Like Eminem says, you got to make the most of that hour together it we might not ever see each other again. And I have this much time to get that information.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 15:18

Absolutely. You'll like this story, Dana. So I've got 10-year-old and a younger one as well, but the other day, oh, money. No, he doesn't call me Mummy anymore. Not in public Mum. There's this really new cool singer. You won't have heard of him. He's probably a bit too cool. Basically I said, oh yeah, yeah, what's he is called Eminem. You probably haven't heard of him. And I was like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? I was there in the nineties. I was singing with my friends and he was like, what? Really? And I think it's come about because Fortnite have been playing Eminem on some of their songs. So a whole new generation of fans have appeared and it's just is just things that come around again, isn't it? It's really, really bizarre.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 16:08

That's funny. I have a 14-year-old and I have a 23-year-old, and it's funny, sometimes they'll say, mother, I go, why don't call me mother? They're like, oh, they just sort of think it's funny. Now why do you call me that? And they go, well, I feel like we have just a much more professional relationship. It's kind of a joke because growing up I actually had to call my mom mother and my father, father and I actually had to salute him and say, yes sir, father, sir. And we had to line up and it was really strict pushups every morning there was eight children. And so we were all, I think they were really trying to over organise us.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 17:08

And with that amount of children, some element of organisation, I'm thinking of sound of music, lining them up each having their own note, but is that level of organisation and what sounds like control? And we look at mammalian organisation, systems of hierarchy and dominance and subservience, and we know that goes on. But actually for me, for UK psychologist and human, that sounds extreme. Is that extreme in the us?

Dr Dana Anderson (: 17:44

Yeah, I would consider my upbringing that's very extreme and that's not how I would raise my children. It's not like they had parental training, they weren't psychologists, to be honest. I felt like I spent a lot of time parenting my parents. So growing up, this will probably make sense of why I decided to become a forensic psychologist, but growing up my parents, there was a lot of domestic violence and my mom and dad were both homicidal. And so my mom would have a gun pointed at my dad or my dad would be strangling my mom out. So I was child and I observed this and I couldn't understand. And I watched it and I still couldn't understand. It didn't really make any sense why anyone would even be that mad about anything was really dumbfounded. But I thought if I could understand, then I could help.

(: 18:53

But I really can't help and intervene on any level if I have no clue what to do. And I remember I was five going to school. My mom put me in first grade when I was five, which is a little bit young, but I remember my mom standing on the porch with a gun and she was pointed at my dad. My dad was trying to drive us to school and I remember this scene happening and I never told anyone my entire school years, ever, not once. Why would I? Again, it goes back to why you should ask difficult questions, right? No one asked me a question, right? Besides everything good, are you okay? Right.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 19:40

No one specifically said, have you ever seen your mom point a gun at your dad? And you are not necessarily going to form those words. That's what we learn, isn't it? If you ask superficial questions, you'll get superficial answers. You almost have to ask exactly the right question at the right time.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 19:57

Yeah. How would I know that wasn't happening everywhere? Everywhere. How must've

Dr Marianne Trent (: 20:02

Been scary though? Did it feel scary? I mean, how used to, because guns are very uncommon in the UK and when they are around, they're supposed to be kept in locked cabinets and all of that jazz and you have licences for them. I know it's very different in the states, but I mean it sounds like you've always grown up seeing guns and it wouldn't have been outlandish if you did mention that at home there was a gun because probably lots of parents had guns at home.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 20:34

We lived in the country very rural on 20 acres. We had farm animals, a garden we're really remote, there was lots of guns. And we had target practise as part of my childhood training, my dad trained us in weapons and we shotguns as a kid. I think I turned 12 and I got a 30 odd six, a giant rifle that was bigger than me, which I never had any interest in hunting. But anyways, people have different lived experiences. My childhood was interesting, but I observed these things and I wasn't so much understanding was important for survival, but I decided if either one of them died, I would be fine psychologically. And I played it out all the time in my head and I would take care of the kids, but I thought it would not be good and I would do everything I could to intervene.

(: 21:45

So I started learning things to help them not do these things. So this sounds silly, but I started doing my mom's hair and makeup, giving her one-on-one time laying out her clothes. She was depressed or helping her feel special. She had a lot of trauma. Both my parents were victims of other types of abuse from their childhood. And then I just really sought to understand them. Little did I know that's kind of what psychologists do. I didn't. And I would take my siblings and we'd lock ourselves in a room and I would read to them and I would just say, this is not right, but you can choose a different life. We're not choosing violence going to. And so I would talk to them about how we are going to grow up and we're not going to do this and we're never going to do this and this is wrong. I feel like

Dr Marianne Trent (: 22:50

Your Matilda born into the wormwood family, but you are so different to them and you are a force for good. And I don't think you quite realise how special you are actually that this violence and this control and abuse was inflicted emotional, possibly physically at times as well was inflicted on you and you were just like, yeah, this isn't right. This is not for me. And actually everything we learn about trauma and violence and how it perpetuates, you're like, no, this doesn't compute. I'm not going to become violent because that's my formative experiences. And yeah, I just don't think you realise how incredible that is. And I dunno if the Matilda reference translated, I dunno if you've watched that film or if you're familiar with the book, but that's just what you conjure up for me.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 23:41

Yeah, I think as we study, we always look at people who grew up in violence and then that makes sense why they became a killer or they did these horrible things. But also let's look at the people who never became violent and grew up and did wonderful. I do great things later. My siblings became suicidal or homicidal to my parents, as you can understand, as a natural response to violence or confusion, how to make it stop. And so I spent a lot of time intervening and talking them out of that. And then when my siblings sometimes were suicidal, I remember being first confronted with it and thinking, I really don't have the skillset for this. I don't feel suicidal or homicidal. I don't want to hurt anyone. I want to help everyone love and feel safe. So then I remember one of my siblings, we went out I to breakfast ihop, and she told me she had an attempt and then I thought, I really better get, I think I need to get schooled on this.

(: 24:52

I'll do the best I can here, but I don't know what to say or do exactly. I was like, if I had the skillset, well that could be really powerful. It actually could be life saving. And I do think my being born into that family changed the dynamics of something horrible that could have occurred. And I spent a lot of time talking to my parents and trying to rationalise with them and to understand them. And so eventually I become a psychologist. And now I understand on a much deeper level how even complex PTSD can manifest. And while it can look like psychosis or other things we don't understand. Understanding the correct diagnosis or the right intervention is key. But I always say I would never underestimate the power of an effective intervention. There were key moments when I was there and I used my words and with holding my hand out or speaking assertively hundreds of hundreds of times, but where it stopped. And so I learned a lot through my experience. And then it gave me a skillset to be really comfortable working with violent offenders who were dangerous and threatening and homicidal or suicidal. And I was like, oh, I can get paid to do this.

(: 26:34

I've been doing it for free for 25 years. I would like a paycheck, please for my adolescence. Yeah, I should have been getting paid top dollar.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 26:49

Absolutely.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 26:51

I do find, so it can be a gift to take something you've been through and use it as I can say, I have experience

Dr Marianne Trent (: 27:04

With this. You do, you do. And it feels like you almost could have gone on to be a hostage negotiator or forensic psychologist could have gone either way.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 27:16

No, totally. Because there were situations that are so fragile, just a moment away from something tragic happening, what to say and do in that moment, those moments that can change everything.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 27:42

Absolutely. Can I ask the birth order in your family? Where did you come in the eight?

Dr Dana Anderson (: 27:48

So I know that's the psychology of birth order, right? People? That's a whole study in itself, but I'm in the middle. I did have a sibling that died, so that would make nine. So four. I'm sorry to hear that. So I'm in the middle. So I actually was the baby. I was the youngest for at least six years. Then there was a sibling that died after me. And then there was a gap, I think seven years between the next sibling. So I was the youngest of the top four and the oldest of the next crew. So I was the youngest and then the middle, but also the oldest. So eventually when the oldest three moved out, I was the oldest of the younger siblings. So I changed their diapers, took them to school, helped them with homework, did all the things, and I started working the day I turned 13, I was a nanny for four kids, plus there was three kids at home. So I was quite busy. And it just felt like a lot of responsibility.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 29:17

And it reminded me of something you said earlier that you'd rationalised almost that you could cope if your parents died. It's almost like a dissociation slash like a defence, like a fracturing that you, you're just existing. You're using their resources to exploit so that you can survive. They're feeding, they're clothing you, but actually you are raising yourself and you're not relying upon anybody. You're doing this yourself.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 29:49

Correct. So food like clothing, shelter we're covered. We got food from the government had these brown bags, they'd give you a big chunk of cheese and a can of pork and it was corn, cornmeal, and we would make cornmeal mush, make it into breakfast cereal. Anyway, so yeah, I mean we had basic things. So then I just thought, well, I could work and I could cover all my basic needs. Okay, so this is funny. I think you'll like this one. This is my entrepreneurship journey, so I'm desperate. They had this thing called the home spun fare. It's like people made jams or jellies or aprons or, so I made pin cushions as in people that sew. My mom sewed our clothes. I didn't sew, I wasn't interested. I made pin cushions as a child. I took an old can of tuna, wash it out a can, you have a circle.

(: 31:11

And I put stuffing in it, put cloth over it as for a pin cushion. And then I made a circle cardboard under it, so it was like a hat. So I hot glued lace, dolled it up. I sold them for like $7. So without knowing it, right, I sold them at the fair. And I remember making my first sell and I was really proud. You sold two pin cushions and how silly, you said you felt so silly starting out and I felt silly, but I was like, I don't know what else to do. I don't have a lot of resources, but I'm industrious enough to be like, I've got cloth cardboard. An old tuna can some old stuffing from an old pillow, but sometimes we just do what we got to do.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 32:10

Absolutely. And you pull that out the bag as we say. I think that's probably the difference really. I probably felt silly because I actually didn't really at this time need the money. I was still working three days a week in the NHS, which is our health service here. I started my business. My husband had said, well, what are you going to do when our youngest starts preschool because you don't work. There's two mornings a week when you usually would have him. And I was thinking, I dunno, go for a facial, have a nap, catch up on the chaos of the last three years. And he was like, you could start a business. And I was like, I suppose I could. So that's how my business was born. But I initially was so scared of spending any money lest I not have any money to pay my taxes with because in the uk, if you're employed, your taxes are taken off at source.

(: 33:06

You don't need to do any of that. Whereas when you're self-employed, you are responsible for reporting that and working out your expenses and all of that jazz. So I just saved, other than my costs that I needed to run my business like room hire and indemnity and all of that, I just saved the rest of it. So I think it's probably that's the difference. That's probably what made me feel a bit silly. It wasn't life or death for me at that time. It was just a bit of self-actualization and something to do with my time. And then it was only over the development of that and then actually during Covid that I really began to take myself seriously. And then it's almost three years to the day that I've become fully self-employed. And it's probably something about that that I now need the money I'm earning, so I'm striving for it more. And it's the little girl who's selling pin cushions. I'm going to talk to you to see if you want to buy any of my pin cushions because actually I need to pay my mortgage.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 34:14

I love it. I feel the same way about starting my business, the financial aspect and taxes was the most challenging, not my specialty is not finances. And so it's been two years for me doing my own business and there's a lot I've learned and I'm continuing to learn things are getting better to be more organised. Also a CEO so that I have to do all these other things.

(: 35:01

I'm working on negotiating contracts with agencies, governmental and county agencies, and I am getting those. And there's a lot of things you have to do to get in that position. And I don't know, I feel like it's been a lot of hats for me, but eventually my goal is to step back just a bit so that I can oversee the business and hire people and interns to do the work and I can oversee it. Right now I'm doing so many reports and a bit more than I would like to be doing, and I'm setting it up. I'm taking my first three interns next month and I'll be training them and they'll start doing some evaluations. And my goal is to truly move over to be more of a CEO and do more consulting work, less report writing. I'm doing some fun things now that I didn't think originally.

(: 36:20

When you start out to do your own business, you're not really sure how it's going to go. You're hoping for the best, but it's an adventure. There's unknowns. But this year I've had people reach out to me for cold cases, like I'm working with PIs, I'm doing some wild cases crossing over to civil law lawsuits, and I'm doing my podcast Killer Psychologist podcast where we're doing some cold case exploration and getting some fascinating stories. And it's fun. It gets in touch with my creative side or storytelling that Nancy Drew side of me that okay, good. You know what Nancy Drew is, right? So just that your love for my curiosity, I need mystery. I like to investigate. And so there's some television shows that I'll be on this year or some other ones in the works where I get to explain things right from the perspective of some of these offenders. And that is interesting to me because I want to challenge how people think about things like to get into the minds of some of these people. I like to explain that and help people understand it.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 37:52

Not everything is common knowledge.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 37:56

And I also want to prevent people from becoming these

(: 38:01

Horrific individuals. I'm explaining it. I like to explain it to parents and children. And I work with adolescents and juvenile hall who've committed crimes, including murder. And so I meet with them and I think I have four right now with reports I need to write, but I can make recommendations to the court about where they go, what their treatment is, where they transfer to. And so that's the part I like intervention. I do have people follow up. I have one case right now, a tragic case, a boy that was being abused in a number of ways, using drugs, having psychosis, got in trouble in a psychotic state, got violent with someone. So I did a mental health diversion evaluation. So I assessed that he needs mental health treatment instead of going to potentially prison. He was turning 18. And over the last eight months, I've kept in touch because I've written, I'll be writing my third report to the court with his status update. And he's just doing wonderful. Has a job, no psychosis doing so well. And so he's so grateful. His life has changed, his attorney's happy. There's so many great stories to share like that where you get to see it and you're like, yeah, I have a purpose in life. Good things can happen and they can happen because of you.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 40:03

Yeah. Well you've almost moved me to tears there. That's lovely. You, you're able to achieve those results for people and with people. It's incredible. Well done. You tell us a little bit more about your podcast, how is that all going? And give us a flavour of what that's like.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 40:25

Killer Psychologist podcast is, well, I'm killing it, but

Dr Marianne Trent (: 40:36

Very good.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 40:36

So it's not about just killers or killer psychology, but let's highlight the killer skillset of these investigators and these people that work on these cases, not the actual killers themselves, but people that are interested in getting into this career field. Maybe you want to be a private investigator or a law enforcement officer or a forensic psychologist. Listen to us. We have these experts on there. They're sharing how they saw this case, how they worked through it, highlight their skillset, what they're doing, donate to their nonprofit. We're helping find people. We're digging up bodies or we're bringing justice. Let's stop focusing on these criminals and highlighting them, giving them all this attention. What about the skillset of a forensic psychologist? Don't you think that's interesting?

Dr Marianne Trent (: 41:32

I do.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 41:33

I do. I do. And the people that want to become a forensic psychologist just kind of open up your mind. It's not how you see it on tv. I'm real and this is what I do. And so I think it's helpful for a lot of people that maybe want to get in this career field, but they're confused on how to become a forensic psychologist. So they want to know what I do. Is she going to crime scenes? So not really, but I could. But the reality is who's going to pay you to do that? And so the reality is after crimes have been committed, then I do their psych eval and I'm ordered by the court, but I'm also retained by attorneys and individuals in the community. So I think killer psychologists is good for just anybody that's curious about true crime or want to be a forensic psychologist or even any career within forensic psychology. We have some killer PIs on the show and my co-host who's a forensic psychologist, he's also a retired law enforcement officer, he's also an attorney. So there's a lot of this critical thinking. So I really want people to think through things. So we have an episode that's out. It's like, oh, what day is it? Wednesday? And it's about OJ Simpson and the potential of an accomplice with him. There was a man with him, and I'm sure OJ Simpson,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 43:11

He just died. So is this just exceptionally well timed or had you already planned this

Dr Dana Anderson (: 43:16

Before? Funny thing is we were already wanted to do the story because a private investigator just done a whole investigator report on that homicide and he was involved with this. There's a whole backstory. You can listen to the podcast, but there was another person with him that night. And it also involves the mob and it gets complicated. The justice system isn't always just OJ got away with murder just in case anyone hasn't figured that out. And he also in civil court was ordered to pay. And as of yesterday, the attorney for O j's estate said he's going to make sure that family never gets a penny. And this is even after ojs dead. So the system isn't just, he got away with murder in criminal court and he didn't pay any money in civil court. But the story is interesting when we give you the whole, well, the guys I'm working with have the whole discovery file and audio recordings, crime scene evidence, the whole investigation.

(: 44:28

So we're giving out this information, we want people to think about it. How did this happen? And it's interesting if anything, right? But I also want to encourage critical thinking. So people may have preconceived theories about this case, but what if you didn't know this? What if I told you there was two murder weapons? What if now are you wondering, well, how did that happen? How does this make sense? And I will go back to ethics. For anyone wanting to get into this field, there's people that can pay the media not to share certain information. Law enforcement officers taking bribes, there's blackmail, there's a collusion, there's a lot of different

Dr Marianne Trent (: 45:22

Things. It's like an episode of Sopranos, isn't it? Like it's all going on.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 45:27

And so that murder trial is, well, sadly it taught me that was happening when I was graduating from high school. It taught me one thing. First of all, I thought, oh, your ex-husband can murder you and get away with it. And huh, I don't really feel good about that. I hope someone, if someone killed me, would someone would avenge my death or justice would prevail even after I was gone. So that also inspired me to be,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 46:04

It's part of being human really. You have to believe that. Otherwise, how can you live? It feels like a lawless state. Why would any of us follow any of the rules if there's no consequences? That is the very nature of our human society. That's what stops us from going out and committing all these horrendous crimes is because we believe in the consequences of that. And so if there aren't any, it really does turn everything on its head

Dr Dana Anderson (: 46:34

Well, and there aren't any consequences for these people. They've gotten away with a lot of things over time and even now, and that's not right. So I feel like I have a good sense of justice and I encounter a lot of horrific cases where people are still killing or committing violent sexual acts and there's things we can do to stop it. So law enforcement doesn't always have the resources. So you're seeing more private investigators who are basically independent, can help track down criminals, get confessions, do a analysis. Sometimes they're just handing it to law enforcement right now, in a few cases I'm working on, that's what's happening. We want law enforcement to reopen some of these cases. And what my podcast can do is help bring awareness to some of these murders who've people gotten away with murder. It's like, let's reopen this case. Here's all the information.

(: 47:59

And I just had a PI message me last night. It's a cold case in Florida. This man, young man murdered his girlfriend and is on the run, but we're zooming in on him and they can get away with it for so many years until somebody starts looking in a little deeper, even after the case is closed or he wasn't even charged. But you start getting this information. So it's important. This is how don't you want to feel safe in society? Don't you want to know how can we live if people just can get away with murder? And

Dr Marianne Trent (: 48:44

How can we raise our children if we believe that the world is unsafe and unjust

Dr Dana Anderson (: 48:50

And it isn't safe, but I'm going to do my part to help people feel safe. So going back to my childhood, feeling safe is just a basic need. If you can't feel safe, I mean, you can't really flourish or exist well in the world. So one of the things that I love to do as a forensic psychologist or that I have done teaching people to communicate their wants and needs assertively without using violence. So violence prevention. And it's something I see that violence is still every day. There's horrific violence happening. And it's Martin Luther King said that violence is the language of the unspoken and I that always resonates with me because they are communicating something. And as forensic psychologists, we decipher what that message is. And so I've met with so many people who tell me what their message was, and I get it, but I understand message received. But how could we have communicated this without these mass killing sprees and things? So I think I just feel like I have a sense of responsibility to educate and provide information. But you do people

Dr Marianne Trent (: 50:16

Calm way. You are so calm. You calm me as well. I feel like I'm just going to hang out more with Dana and just slow everything down. And it's really, really nice. I find you very easy to be with. And yeah, I just really enjoy time with you. I feel like we're a little bit less naughty when we're on record than we are when we're off record. But yeah, it's just, I've really enjoyed our chat. Where can people listen to your podcast? Where's the best place for them to do that or to watch that? I dunno if you're at Visual Podcast as well.

Dr Dana Anderson (: 50:53

Well, I'm kind of a visual person, so I'm putting the podcast on YouTube that way you can see us if you want my giant talking head. But you can comment and interact with us and have meaningful conversations. Get connected. So killer psychologist on YouTube, killer psychologist podcast.com. My company is psychology doctor.com. That's psychology dr.com. And so it's a forensic psychology consulting firm, and I work with a lot of courts and I do court appointed psych evals. And I think the podcast was created just to have a creative outlet to write, just to be social and also have fun. So we're actually just really having fun on the podcast because I want people to have fun. The other PIs, the other psychologists, we get together and chat. We're actually laughing in between before and after. We're calling each other after we're talking. We love each other.

(: 52:09

It's just we need that human connection. And we're people too. We want to have fun. It's not all serious and uptight like we do this and we're so smart and clever, we're like robots. No, we're just sharing for educational purposes. And I think that if people want to tune in and listen and be a part of that community, we're really receptive and open to people connecting and commenting on YouTube. And I have a love for helping educate the next generation of people that are interested in going to this career field. So a lot of the content's really helpful. What does a forensic psychologist do? Well, I'll tell you what we do, just tune in and there's a lot of good information. And lastly, I would say I'll do episodes specifically based on what people want. So careers in forensic psychology, careers in criminal justice, like different career options for people to get information about because I really want the future generation to be interested in this. See its value instead of going and pursuing OnlyFans or being a stripper or selling your body, there's so many different things that people are doing because they want to make money, but it's valuing themselves or I still believe that education is is so important and valuable. It's not just achieving the degree or the certificate or hanging that plaque on your wall. It's how it's changed my thinking made me a better person and one that can be of use and a value.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 54:02

Well, I think you sound like an incredibly useful, valuable person and we obviously share the same passion for upskilling the next generation as well. It's really important to me. I know you are on Instagram as well, aren't you? Are Dr. Dana Anderson. So people should come and follow you there as well. It has been the biggest pleasure speaking with you. I've absolutely loved it, wishing you well with whatever comes next for you. And do stay in touch with me because I just really like you, girl Crush

Dr Dana Anderson (: 54:35

Time. Oh, you're so sweet and kind. And thank you for just being a good human and a good soul and bringing good to the world.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 54:47

Thank you. Well, ditto. Thank you again. Honestly, I absolutely loved that. Thank you to our guest, Dr. Dana. Please do go and subscribe and follow like her content on YouTube. She's Dr. Dana Anderson, and you can also follow her on Instagram and on LinkedIn too. I loved speaking with her. What did you think? Come and let me know. Come and discuss with me in my free Facebook group, the Aspiring Psychologist Community with Dr. Marianne Trent. And that is also the home of our new live series called Marianne's Motivation and Mindset. Come and join the conversation. Let me know who you are, let me know what you need from me. And if you love what I do, if you love the podcast, if you love the books, the Clinical Psychologist Collective, the Aspiring Psychologist collective, I think you'll also really like the Aspiring Psychologist membership. Thank you so much for trusting me to be part of your world and to help you on this fantastic journey of psychology. I would love your thoughts and I just love having you be part of my world. Thank you so much. Take care and be kind

Jingle Guy (: 56:01

If you psychologist.