Adult ADHD, Diagnosis and Assessment with Maddy Alexander-Grout

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:00

Coming up today, what is ADHD and how does it present in adults? We are talking with Maddy, who has recently been diagnosed with ADHD, and we're discussing her experiences of growing up, seeing that play out for herself, and also when she had her realisation moments and what taking medication has been like, how that has changed her, and how she is super pleased now that she knows what she knows and how that has become her superpower. This is so relevant for us whether we are neurodivergent ourselves, whether we are living or working or supporting clients who are neurodivergent. I hope you'll find this so useful.

(: 00:50

Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent, and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. Now you will have to have been living in a cave to not have seen the recent surge in press attention and social media attention for issues around neurodiversity, and I am here for it. I think it's incredibly empowering and really, really useful and helps people to understand things about themselves, both now and maybe in the past, and how to plan and better prepare for things in future too. Today's episode, we are looking at A DHD, and it is a brilliant listen and one that I hope you will find is time well spent. I will catch you on the other side. I just want to welcome along Maddy to the podcast today. Hi Maddy.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 01:41

Hey Marianne. Thanks for having me.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 01:43

Thank you for saying yes. So we are in several business networks together and we've kind of got to know each other that way. And what really stood out was obviously your amazing content, which we'll come on to talk about later. But you have recently had an ADHD diagnosis, haven't you? Can I ask you what does ADHD mean to you and for you?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 02:11

So it all came about in a really weird way. So I knew nothing about A DHD probably three, four years ago. All I thought was it was that naughty little boy thing that people have when they're in primary school. And my son's teacher called me in and said, we think Ben's got ADHD. And I was like, but he's not naughty. And they said, you don't have to be naughty. So I went away and I did loads of research on it and fell into the TikTok rabbit hole. I mean, I spend a lot of time on TikTok anyway, but it was a very interesting rabbit hole. And I came back out the other side going, oh, this is me. All of this is me. I've got all of these symptoms and kind of forgot about Ben, bless him, horrible Mum. And I focused on getting my diagnosis.

(: 03:01

So I decided after going to the NHS that it was going to be a very, very, very long process. So I got a private diagnosis initially. Then there was that Panorama documentary about the diagnosis that private people give out, and I just doubted myself so much. I thought, no, maybe they've misdiagnosed me, maybe I don't have it at all. So I went back to the NHS and I thought I will get back on the waiting list. And I got referred through Psychiatry UK to choose which sped up the process a lot. So we we're talking three year waiting list down to nine months, and I got my ADHD diagnosis. The lady who was my psychiatrist said, I've never seen anybody present their symptoms more ADHD-ly than you. And I was like, I'll take that as a compliment. And she said, but also I think you're autistic.

(: 03:56

And I was like, no, I'm not autistic. No, no, no, no, no, I'm not having any of that. Not a chance. Went away and did a bit of research on autism as well, and I was like, maybe possibly, I don't know, not really. And then I got my ADHD medication and I started taking that and then all of a sudden, oh, hello, autism, there you are. So it completely unmasked me. I did basically a CPD accreditation as a neurodiversity in the workplace specialist. And I learned all about all the other neurodivergent conditions and I've got all of them apart from Tourette's. So there's a lot there to unpack. But for me, having my ADHD diagnosis was the thing that literally changed my life. I went from feeling like a completely broken unfunctional horse to realising my superpower, and now I just embrace my neurodiversity and I'm just a crazy wild zebra that does things the way that she does them.

(: 04:56

And when you have that moment of realisation that actually you're not broken, it is made such a difference in my story because I had my money story. I was in 40,000 pounds worth of debt. I struggled throughout my whole life with money spending, addiction, all sorts of problems. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, that makes so much sense. I didn't just spend because I was really bad with money I spent because my brain was craving the dopamine. So it was very interesting. And then I also realised after my diagnosis that I'd spent six years in business trying to follow the gurus and the people who were all really successful. And I realised that the reason why I wasn't successful is because my brain doesn't work that way. And when I started doing things my way, I started to become successful. Weird and everything changed for me. So it's been absolutely life-changing, getting a diagnosis,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 05:57

And I'm really pleased that it's given you such. I dunno, is it key holder benefits or key holder understanding or it's just been transformational but also given you permission to really lean into who you are and to see your special gifts and talents is exactly that?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 06:15

Absolutely. Knowledge is power. And for anybody who is out there thinking or suspecting that they might have ADHD acts like you have it. If you think you've got it, the likelihood is that you probably do. And I started to embrace it from day one that I found all that information and thought that's me. And that was the thing that changed. I didn't wait for the diagnosis to start owning it, I just owned it from day one. And I think if you wait and you kind of hang around in that limbo area, you don't have the knowledge is power situation. So I just went from not knowing I had it to knowing I had it because when, and then that just gave me all of the knowledge that I could put together. And also it helped me to learn from my mistakes and all of the things that I've messed up on over the years. It made me feel like I was actually more successful than I was.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 07:10

I'm so pleased you've had that experience of coming home, I guess, really. But just before we hit record, I said, oh, I think I probably do fit within the criteria of ADHD. And you're like, yeah, I think you probably do too. What made you say that? What was your spidey sense?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 07:30

So one of the things that, especially if you do neurodiversity in the workplace, we don't diagnose people, but I think it does take one to know. One, we gravitate towards people who have similar traits, similar values, similar brain function, and you can get a feel from somebody with how fast they talk, what they talk about, the sharing situation. We're oversharers a little bit, not in a bad way because I always think that the more people know about me, the more they'll get to know and trust me and the more people want to work with me. So I'm like an open book. My husband hates it. He's like, I can't believe you've just said that somewhere publicly. But for me it's just what you see is what you get. And I think you are quite like that as well, which I really like. So for me, it's very much, I will never say to somebody, you've got ADHD, but I think when you meet somebody who suspects they've got ADHD, you can kind of say, well, if you suspect it your own brain. So you're probably right.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 08:40

Yeah. And I think in terms of being able to quickly attune and warm and feel comfortable with people, it's an excellent skill in psychology as well and in business coaching that you do. And it means that you, and I think with being podcasters, both of us are podcasters. You have to be your genuine self, otherwise it comes across in a really staged manner and that it doesn't sit well.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 09:09

No, no, I talk on podcasts. I would talk to somebody if I was sat in a room with them. Nobody needs that forced staged thing. I think it does also come from years of being an influencer as well. I rock up on TikTok, I talk there every day. I share my innermost thoughts and feelings, but that's what people like and that's the thing that helps me to get business.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 09:39

Yeah, definitely. And I think I'm thinking back to when I was working in cams, which for anyone who's not familiar with that term, it stands for Children's and Adolescent Mental Health Services. And we were having to go into school and do observations. And quite often I'd be saying to the school, the child often didn't know I was coming. They didn't know they'd been referred. This was the first stage of assessment. And they'd be saying, the teacher would be saying, well, there's no problem with them quite often if it was a girl, of course there's no problem with them, they're fine. And I'm like, well, let's just take a moment to actually take a look at them together. Let's look at the behaviours that are required to sit still when sitting still is expected. I'm saying actually, because what I'm seeing here is pen fiddling and elastic band twanging and dropping things on the floor all the time.

(: 10:33

And actually if you look there, they're sitting in quite a constrained way. So at the moment, I've got my legs wrapped around each other and often in school settings, it's the children that you are constantly having to say, stop rocking on your chair. That actually might well end up fitting quite nicely with an ADHD diagnosis. And they're like, why do I have to keep telling you? And it's like, actually, it's because these are the behaviours that we are seeing from a child or a young person or an adult when sitting still is expected and they want to be different to that. They want to show that they're being respectful, they want to be able to engage with the learning, what are they having to do to themselves or with themselves or for themselves to allow that to happen. And once you can get people's heads around that, so my husband doesn't think that I fidget and yet I'm in constant motion, I feel even when we're sitting still watching tv, constantly moving my arms and my legs because I want to sit still, but those are my compensatory behaviours.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 11:37

Yeah, absolutely. It's weird that you say about twisting legs round and stuff, and that's just been a penny drop moment for me that as a child when I was stood still rather than having my feet like this, I used to do that and that's really weird. Everyone used to be like, why are you standing like that? But I felt uncomfortable in my legs and it felt better that they went that way. So really interesting that you said that.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 12:04

Yeah, there's some sensory overlap there as well. So probably not everyone with ADHD has weird leg positioning, but for me, I like blankets as well. I like lots of blankets on my bed at night. And in summer I sleep terribly because I like the layers. And actually

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 12:23

That

Dr Marianne Trent (: 12:23

Just keeps me stiller.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 12:26

I am exactly the same, so I can't sleep unless I've got something on top of me that sounds really wrong, but it has to be. I need the comfort of something being wrapped around me. And that's never good when you're perimenopausal. I just, it's awful. But yeah, I think there was a lot that happened in my childhood that was completely and utterly overlooked, which would've been very much signs and signals. I couldn't stay friends with people for very long. And when I did, I hyper-focused on them to the point where I smothered them and then they didn't want to be my friend anymore because they were like my one person I lost. I had a best friend for eight years and I lost her because she basically just thought I was too much. And my jealousy of her being friends with other people was just a bit weird. I had problems in school where I would just talk to fill space and people just didn't really like that. My behaviour wasn't amazing in primary school and early years, I picked up things like bad habits, like swearing and stuff from other kids, but I couldn't keep it in. So I would say things out loud, which would get me in trouble. And my mom took me to the doctors and I got diagnosed with an artificial colouring allergy, which is very, very typical for eighties girls who had a DHD.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 13:56

I remember seeing you talking about that on socials recently, and I think I even probably commented at the time that Joe Wicks has got himself in hot water recently for saying about processed food. But actually I think a lot of what he's saying really resonates for me. So I grew up in a household where we ate lots of lentils and everything was homemade. We were not vegetarian, but the meat we had had to last a week. It was kind of a frugal household where everything was homemade. And that's just what was the normal for me. And when I was probably in my late primary school years, I went to a McDonald's party and the mother of the child said to me, well, what do you want, Marianne? What do you want to eat? And I actually, I was the kid that said, I don't know what do they do?

(: 14:41

Because I'd never been to McDonald's before. And now as a parent of two young children, I can't really imagine that, especially because it's more prevalent now, but I'm 42 as we record this. So I was born in 81 and McDonald's was still pretty big business even in the eighties and the early nineties. But what I noticed as I began to become more independent is that I was obviously buying things myself with my pocket money or when I started to work, I'd be using my wages. And I actually thought that McDonald's made me what I called at the time, hyper. Whereas in actual fact, I think it was that I was so unused to artificial processed foods that my body sort of went into overdrive. It was a stimulant to me. And so I think really, whilst Joe Wicks might not have said it exactly like that, I think that what he's saying is we've got to be able to give ourselves not just our children, but our children too, the best chance of thriving by really trying to make sure that their nourishment is optimal so that then whatever is unique for them, whatever their best potential is, they've then got the chance to reach their full potential.

(: 15:59

This isn't elitism, this isn't like only bright, only brainy kids are great, but if we are giving optimum nourishment to everybody in our family regardless of age, that gives them the level platform to be able to reach their optimal performance.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 16:14

Yes, and I agree. I think where Joe Wicks kind of messed up was saying that people are being misdiagnosed with a DHD when really it's artificial colouring, sugar, whatever, and having that from the other way round where I was misdiagnosed with an artificial colouring allergy, even though I had had no exposure to any of those kinds of foods, my pet, we lived in the middle of nowhere. We lived next door to a farm in a village in the middle of Hampshire. There was not a McDonald's for miles. We never had anything like that. I didn't have sweets. We didn't go into town. It was like everything was home cooked and fresh, and we lived in a village, so it was all like farm shop food and none of it was processed. So when I got that diagnosis, my Mum was like, but she doesn't have any of those things.

(: 17:06

And they were like, well, that's what it is. So don't have any of those. And that led to me having eating problems as a teenager because I was exposed then all of a sudden to chocolate and sweetss and things that I'd never had before, and I would save up my lunch money and I would go and spend it on sweets or chocolate after school because it gave me that dopamine and it gave me that high. So having that misdiagnosis as a child had such a knock on effect on the way that I ate as a teen, but then also into my adult years, I am such a sugar addict, I really wish I wasn't. And that's one of the things which has contributed to being overweight, and I think that's a hard thing to think about. So when I heard that, I thought, do you know what Joe, heart of the nation, we loved him during the pandemic, but he has made a mistake in talking about something that he doesn't really understand. Yes, a hundred percent. I do agree with the fact that processed foods are not great for our kids and they can cause hyperactivity, but I think it was the misdiagnosis thing that was the thing that kind of hit the nerve for me.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 18:21

Thank you for talking back to that. It's important that everybody has a voice on this. So how about your son then? Because obviously a lot of our listeners will be looking at perhaps they might even be working in children's and young people services. How was this showing up for him? What was being observed by his teachers and those around him?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 18:41

So it was the classic hyperactivity swinging on the chair, but the fact that he was doing handstands when he should have been doing maths, just not being able to sit still at all. Now he's like the Duracell Bunny. He literally just doesn't stop at all. Which for anybody who knows me is probably not that surprising because I'm exactly the same, but he is so driven by a motor. It is unreal how much it shows up. He still hasn't had a formal diagnosis because it's, at the time when his teacher told me about it, he was six and they don't like doing it before seven. So they've put all of the steps and the processes in place to make his life at school so much better. He's allowed to doodle when other people aren't. He can go for walks when he wants to. They give him little break times so he can go and sit on his own, and they are really, really good for him.

(: 19:40

They also put him into the Hamish and Milo programme, which is all about anxiety, and they are brilliant with him, really, really good. I do need to get a rle on and actually get his diagnosis properly done though, because secondary school I think will be a completely different kettle of fish and he's now nine. So I think we do have to do it sooner rather than later. My daughter on the other hand, she is also really early on showing ADHD signs, but more autistic. She is so good at maths, she's really good at spelling. Her artwork is probably as good as a 10 or 11 year olds, and she's five, but she was building Lego blocks proper, not even dulo, but Lego. She was building at 18 months, maybe not the best thing to give a child that young, but she was just all over it. She, she knew it didn't go up her nose. She knew she didn't eat it. She knew she had to build with it, and it was crazy, the sort of thing she was building at 18 months old,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 20:44

I think second time around though. It's just different, isn't it? You've got the older toys in the house already and the young children don't want these boring baby toys. They want those exciting all singing, all dancing, grownup kid toys. So yeah, I think we definitely introduced Lego a lot seen with my youngest. Yeah. So thank you for illuminating us about the processes for both of your children. I would say as a mummy, so I've got a 10-year-old, he's going to be 11 in August, so he's in year six currently. It would be ideal if you can to try and get it sorted out before your son SATs, which will be the summer term of his year six, just because, and obviously speaking as a qualified psychologist as well, we really want to be getting him used to whatever's going on for him so that you've got a really solid transition plan between primary and secondary. And it also might also influence your choice of secondary for him as well. You might want to pick somewhere that's got resource spaces or just something that's going to help him to do his very best. If you are kind of on the cusp of a couple of different catchment areas, it's just about making sure that you are making the best choice for all of you really.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 21:57

It does make total sense. And I think even down to things like school uniform, I worry about the fact that his primary school, they wear and joggers and he's going to have to go to wearing shirt and tie and things, which they're going to be from a sensory perspective, really difficult for him. I think that's a big worry. And his school at the moment are really, really lax about things like his school jumper itchy, he doesn't wear his school jumper, he wears a hoodie, but they're fine with that, but secondary school, they're not going to be fine with that. And it's that transition where I think he's like, yeah, I want to go to secondary school. I want to go with my friends and it's all fine. And I'm like, oh, I don't want you to go. I'm too scared. It is hard being a parent sometimes, but also it really hard.

(: 22:43

It's hard being a parent with ADHD when you've got neurodivergent kids because I think being completely honest, if I'd have known what I knew now about my neurodivergent conditions and the fact that I've got every single one of them bar Tourettes, I think parenting might not have been something on the cards for me if I'd have been diagnosed earlier. So I think from certain aspects, I think being diagnosed earlier is great, but also I wouldn't want to change the fact that I've got kids. They might be really difficult at times. And I do struggle with parenting. I love my kids with all of my heart, but parenting and doing parenting things, organising, picking up from school, all of those kind of things struggle for me massively.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 23:30

Thank you for being so honest and so raw. I think that's really, really liberating for people who are tuning in to listen to this as well. Parenting is really tricky, and I think the thing I find trickiest is I really want to do this right now. I really, really want to finish this. I really, really want to finish this now. I don't really want to stop what I'm doing to come and do whatever it is that you want to do. That's what I struggle with. So it's important for me to have time for my children, but I want to have time for my children when I want to have time for my children. And parenting doesn't always work like that. I want to have my children to have the experience of mommy enjoying spending time with them and being with them. But also because I work from home solely now today as we record is my three year self-employment anniversary. So I'm now always in because I do work from home. And so when they're here, sometimes Mummy is still working, but they just see it as me always working. And that's my case when I was in the NHS when Mummy was working for three of those days, she was out of the house, and so they would just accepted that I was at work. But when I'm here, they see me as being here and it's blending that, isn't it? So it is tricky. It's not an easy battle.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 24:54

No, it is always a hard balance. And my kids are very, they don't like going to afterschool club for example. So I kind of basically made a deal with them. I was like, right, if you guys don't want to go to afterschool club, then I'll come and pick you up from school. But when I come home, I have to still carry on working because I need to do a full day's work. And they are nine times out of 10, very respectful of that. But my daughter is a nightmare, so I make sure that it's never a podcast recording. It's never something that matters if I get interrupted. And I always have to warn the people I've got calls with after I get back from the school run, really sorry. But my daughter probably will come in at some point and ask for biscuits because she can't stay away.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 25:40

Yeah, I hear you. And the work that I tend to do, we've got the same setup. So we have a zero childcare spend, which I know is a really nice position here, so I do it all. But yeah, after school, Mummy will bring you a snack, but then you're welcome to sit on the sofa next to me as I work and do what I need to do. I don't see clients at those times, so I don't see clients with kids in the room or on the sofa, but the bits, doing my zero accounting stuff, that takes time. It takes and reconciling your invoices and checking your emails, and I write quite a lot of stuff for the media and I know you do too. So that takes time. And that tends to be the sort of things that I'll be doing when the children are home.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 26:27

Yeah, I'm exactly the same. I had to do an article yesterday, actually, something slightly different to what I normally talk about as well, which was quite nice. So I don't talk about it that much on podcasts, but I had postpartum psychosis when Ben was little. He was about eight weeks old. He was born with a compressed neck muscle, so he cried nonstop for 10 weeks. He slept in 20 minute bursts, and I was just so overwhelmed, so sleep deprived, and I started having hallucinations and I just went a bit crazy for a while and it was a very, very scary situation. But I got asked to do an article about that yesterday, mental health awareness month, and I was writing that and just distractions for me, especially weirdly, since I've started taking my ADHD medication, I can't get distracted because I'm used to having a million trains of thought going around at all times. And now I'm taking my ADHD medication, I've got one train of thought, and if people come in from external, I'm like, it makes me really stressed and really uptight. So I've had to explain to my kids that mommy's changing because she's got new medication and the tablets that I'm taking sometimes might make me a bit snappy, but they now know, they're like, mommy, you're being snappy. Stop it. So I get told off, which is good. Sometimes we need to,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 28:02

Yeah, and I think that's probably one of the things, I think there's a number of things I want to say here. When we were talking earlier when you were talking about actually if I'd known what I'd known what I've had children, and for me, if I'd have known what I think I know, would I have ended up as a psychologist or would I have thought that I was somehow broken and not worthy of that? Would I have allowed myself to do everything that I do? Yeah. Would I have felt that I was as credible? So I did really pretty well at school. I think I'd have done even better if I'd had some accountability. So for me, the wheels fell off a bit in A levels because I was just chilling out and having some naps in the room. There wasn't anyone going, come on Marianne, get that work done, get that work done.

(: 28:47

You need to do that. And for biology, I did biology a level for all I had to do for each module was read a book that was probably a four but was quite thin. That's all I had to do for each module. And I probably would've got an A, I didn't do it, I didn't do it, and I got a D. And I think that's a real shame because I definitely was capable of it. And actually the bits that I really liked, I really perhaps could even have a go now I'm not going to because be boring. But the nitrogen cycle involving lightning and soil and all of that, I knew it all because I found it fascinating. But if I had been recognised and someone had said, right, Marianne, I can see that you're struggling for this. I want you to do one chapter at a time and then I want you to write me a brief summary about it. That would've been the difference. That made the difference for me.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 29:37

Absolutely. So the wheels fell off for me at college as well and university because I knew that if I didn't do my work, what are they going to do about it? They're not going to give me a detention, are they? Whereas at school, there were consequences for not doing your work. And the refactory was the place where I lived and I went to college every day, but I didn't actually go to my lectures half the time. I'd bum around just socialising. It was way more fun. And I realised that actually I did the wrong subjects, so I was really good at languages and I should have done languages, but instead I did English because my mom kind of made, she didn't make me do it, but it was like you have to do one academic subject. And I did art, I loved art, but I was so weird as an artist that they didn't get me.

(: 30:23

They just didn't understand me at all. So I'm putting down all this weird, probably futuristic. Now you're thinking, you look at the Tracy Emmetts stuff. That was the kind of things that I was doing, but it wasn't art because it wasn't traditional art. And I did textiles, but that wasn't really for me either. I did media studies because I wanted to be a radio presenter. That was all I ever wanted to do. And then when I went to university, I joined the radio station, I hyper-focused on the radio station so much that I became the station manager. I forgot I even did a degree. And then about four years in, they were like, Maddy, you don't go here anymore, you have to leave. So I was like, okay. So I completely flunked out of university. Ended up just getting into ridiculous amounts of debt because I got into a dopamine spending cycle where I basically just to make myself happy, I spent money on whatever I could, and that was a really, really bad cycle.

(: 31:21

And I'm wondering if I'd have not gone to university, not been pushed down that route, and I'd gone and done a business apprenticeship or a marketing apprenticeship, something that was on the table for me, would it have been different? It is weird, but I don't regret any step of my life because it's given me all of the life lessons that I've got today. Every single thing that I did has kind of built up to this moment. And now for the first time in my life, I actually feel like I'm successful because I know how to manage my brain, which is something that I've never known how to do before, and I always assumed that I was failing. Now I know that I'm actually rocking it for how good my brain is, not how good it is. That's not me saying that People who have got neurodivergent conditions don't have good brains, but they work differently. So now I know that I work differently and I run my business in a different way. It is so game changing.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 32:20

I'm so pleased you've had that experience and I feel like we now need to pause for a joint sing of this is My Moment by Martine McCutchen. I feel that being 42 as well, I feel just strong and capable and able. And I've been doing personal training for the last two and a half years, and I really like where I'm at right now. The balance of the different types of work that I do, it just really suits me. Having slightly older children, age seven and 10 I think suits me as well. I like where I'm at right now, and that's a really powerful thing to be able to say. And actually I'm imagining much younger Maddy, who actually was quite confused and lonely at times, to be able to give her that sense that you are going to feel like this in your forties is so powerful.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 33:10

I would never in a million years, if you just said to me and weirdly, I looked at my yearbook the other day and it's like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I just put influential at what I do. How weird is that? So I was like, okay, so not only am I an influencer, I teach people how to be the go-to expert in their niche. And I'm somebody who actually people like to listen to. But I would never in a million years if you'd have said to me that I'd be doing what I do now. I always thought that I'd be working in an office job, something like sales. I mean, I have learned a lot about sales in the process and the jobs that I've done before, but my career was so bumpy before I decided to be self-employed.

(: 33:56

I didn't fit in anywhere in the workplace. I had no friends. I was bullied. I was an oversharer. I didn't fit well into an office environment. I needed to work on my own so that I could give my brain some space to actually work. But if you'd have said to me years ago, Maddy, you will be in the press every single week. You'll be on national radio, you'll have a book deal in the process, I would've gone, no way. There's no way I'm going to write a book, not a chance in hell. But here I am writing a book. So yeah, I never would've thought it.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 34:32

Well, I'm so pleased that you are in such a good place right now and that, yeah, I'm excited to see what comes next for you. Could you tell our audience a little bit about where they can find you and what you do?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 34:47

Yeah, absolutely. I refer to myself as a multipotentialite. Basically. I do all of

Dr Marianne Trent (: 34:53

The things as a what now?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 34:58

So I have two different businesses, but the thing that holds them all together is me. So my personal brand. So I've spent the last eight years being self-employed, growing a personal brand as a money specialist. I'm a bit different to everybody else. I talk about neurodiversity and money and how that shows up for different people. That's my niche. So I've grown as an expert in my niche in the money industry, but now I teach other people to do it as well. So whatever their niche is, I help them to get visible. I help them to get in the press. I help them to grow their social media and their followings. I do one-to-one coaching for business. So I've had a very interesting business career. I have bought businesses, I've sold businesses, but I've also had quite a fair few failed ones. And those are the ones that have taught me everything that I need to know about business because they're the things that you don't want to make as a business owner. So I now spend 50% of my time working either one-to-one with people, or in my membership I've got a membership that helps neurodivergent entrepreneurs to get visible. I do TikTok training courses once a month. They're always free. So if anyone wants any information, come follow me and get started on those. And then my other side is that I run an app called Mad about Money, which is a community for Neurodivergence to help them with money, business, wellbeing, lifestyle, anything that relates back to their living situation.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 36:31

Mad about Money makes a lot more sense to me. The name now, actually that passed me by, but it's that double entendre, isn't it? Yeah,

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 36:40

And I didn't want to call it anything that I wanted a bit of a touch of me, but I didn't want to be the brand because I've made that mistake in the past where I've run a business and the brand has been all consuming and it's all been me, but now it's one of my products that I have. It's a free to download app, so if anyone's struggling with neurodiversity or money problems that it's an open, inclusive, lovely place to hang out. No judgement ever. It's all full of neurodivergence and people who understand each other, which is nice. But yeah, that's kind of where I grow. And I started my TikTok channel Mad about Money Official, about a year and a half ago, and I show up every day. I give tips on money, I give tips on business, I give tips on TikTok. And the good thing about that is normally you'd be like, but all of those things are all really different things. But I pulled them together with my personality to make a personal brand, and it just seems to work

Dr Marianne Trent (: 37:41

Amazing. I'm pretty rubbish at TikTok, so I'll make sure Come on. One

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 37:45

Of my training courses,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 37:49

And I guess what I don't want our audience to think as a finishing note really, is that if they are recognising that they might have some neurodiversity that they're not employable, because actually that's not at all what we're saying and actually what my experience of moving from job to job is that some people will be your tribe and will adore you and worship you and others may not get you. And that's okay to just move on and move on to the next and wait for your tribe. Absolutely.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 38:19

Yeah. So let me go into a little bit more detail about that. I know it was short on time, but with my situation, it was always, I didn't have the right support in the workplace. So there is a free grant called Access to Work, which helps to support people who are neurodivergent in the workplace to help them to stay in the workplace. Also as well, I do neurodiversity in the workplace training for managers who have neurodivergent staff or people who suspect that they're, because it's about utilising the correct skills for the correct roles and supporting people with neurodivergent conditions so that they can actually enjoy being in the workplace nowadays. I mean, we're talking 10 years ago that I was employed. Back then, there was no knowledge of neurodiversity in any way, shape or form. So I wasn't accepted in the workplace nowadays, completely different story.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 39:14

Yeah, there's been such a flexibility curve, hasn't there really? And everything is about inclusivity now, and I think it's long overdue. And if we'd been even having to to have these conversations 10 years ago, probably nobody would've listened. It would've been, it's a fad. It's like, it's silly. It's just

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 39:33

Mental health.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 39:34

Yeah. Thank you so much for your time. I hope that the rest of your journey with your early days of med continues to go well. I love the way I think would be worried about what if my brain wasn't like this? How have you got around that before we finish in?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 39:57

It's really interesting how much it changed, and especially as it has unmasked the autism side. And it's also, I think made my dyspraxia worse as well. I mean, I've got a nickname with my group of friends, Billy Maddy, because it's like, how many seconds can I be at a party before I spill something or trip over or knock over a table? It's made me so much worse. But also I think one of the things that I struggle with is people and soaking up people's energies because I'm a bit of an empath, so I've had to really, really learn how to be around people again, which is strange for me because I'm quite a sociable person from an A DHD perspective, my focus is so much better. My organisation is so much better, but I don't take my meds at the weekends because I still need some time for my brain to be creative.

(: 40:52

Otherwise, I feel like it's turned everything off. The first week of taking my meds, I was sat in the car and I turned the radio off and I couldn't hear anything, and it was the weirdest, weirdest thing in the world. It was like silence. And I've never had that in my entire life. I have always got an inner monologue. I've always got constant talking. My inner monologues disappeared, which is a really, really weird adjustment, and it's been weighing up the pros and cons of whether or not I actually like that or whether I don't like that. So I've kind of agreed with my doctors. I take it in the morning so I can get my focus in. I can do my work, but then I don't take my second dose, which a lot of people do, so that I can get my creativity and my brain can start working. It helps me a lot with anxiety as well. So I will carry on taking them, but I'm also being really, really hyper aware that it is changing me a little bit. And I've said to all of my friends, if it changes me to the point where I'm not Maddy anymore, you need to let me know and I'll come off them because I'm Maddy, I am unstoppable, unique, inspiring, fun, energetic, all of these things. And if any of those things go away, then I need to not be on them.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 42:12

Thank you for sharing. What we know is that there is a high percentage of people with neurodiversity in caring professions. So I think this will be really interesting listening for so many people. So thank you for spending your time with us. So warmly, please do come and follow Maddy. We will make sure that the links are on screen and in the show notes as well. Thank you again, Maddy.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (: 42:35

Thanks for having me.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 42:36

Thank you so much to our guest. Maddy what an incredibly honest, thought provoking, inspiring, compassionate discussion that was. I would love to know what your thoughts on this are. Would you like to see more conversations from people that have been diagnosed or had certain experiences of certain conditions? Do let me know. And yeah, has this evoked anything for you, for your own thinking, for your own experiences, or for those around you? If you found this helpful, please do rate and review us on the podcast platform you are listening to. Or if you're on YouTube, please do like and subscribe. Drop me a comment and one of the most helpful things you can do for the podcast, which will take you just one moment, is if you are listening on Spotify, if you are listening on Apple Podcasts, it's just to follow the show. It helps us immeasurably, it helps us demonstrate that we are worth tuning into.

(: 43:37

Come and connect with me on socials. I am Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere. And you can also nip on to the Aspiring Psychologist Community Free Facebook Group. Come and discuss this episode there. Let me know what you think. And don't forget, we've got the Aspiring Psychologist membership, which you can access from just £30 a month, and it will help you to supercharge your chances of shooting for your psychology dreams. And we've also got the Clinical Psychologist Collective and the Aspiring Psychologist Collective, which get wonderful reviews too. If you would like your voice at the start and the end of any of these podcasts, then do let me know and we can help sort out an audio testimonial and that would be so appreciated. Thank you for being part of my world. Thank you for trusting me to help you in your journey in mental health and stay kind to yourselves and I will see you for our next episode, which will be available from 10:00 AM on Saturdays on YouTube, and from 6:00 AM as an mp, three on Mondays. Take care, be kind.

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