What is it like going from trainee to qualified clinical psychologist?

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:00

What's it really like transitioning from being a trainee psychologist to a fully qualified psychologist? Join me and Dr. David as we unpack the challenges, surprises, and lessons in this pivotal career step. Whether you are an aspiring psychologist or perhaps preparing for qualified life, this is an episode you will not want to miss. Hi, welcome along to the award-winning podcast. I am Dr. Marianne and it's so lovely to have you here. I, as you may know, am a qualified clinical psychologist and there were many, many steps involved in getting me from where I started to being fully qualified and beyond. This felt like a timely and very important episode to record. If you find it useful, please do drop me a comment alike, consider sharing and subscribing. If you're listening on Spotify, please do rate. If you're on Apple Podcasts, please do take a moment to rate and review the show and wherever you listen, please subscribe. This was an absolute gem of an episode to record and I hope you really enjoy it. I will catch you on the other side. I just want to welcome along to the podcast, Dr. David Singleton. Hi, welcome along.

Dr David Singleton (: 01:20

Hi. Hi Marianne. How are you?

Dr Marianne Trent (: 01:22

I'm really well, thank you. I was really kind of you to ask, thank you for being here and for fitting us into your very busy, newly qualified schedule, but you've also had a fantastic summer as well and we might think some more about that, but you are a very newly qualified clinical psychologist, which is going to be kind of our topic for today, thinking about that transition and what qualified life is like.

Dr David Singleton (: 01:48

Yeah, absolutely. Recently qualified at the end of September, so it feels very, very, very new and need to spend time reflecting on that.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 01:57

Yeah, absolutely. We are recording mid-November at the moment, but I think this is useful whatever time of the year it is for people. Just before we dive into all of that, could you give us a potted history about you and why clinical psychology appealed to you?

Dr David Singleton (: 02:17

Yeah, absolutely. That's really interesting to reflect on that actually. It feels like it's been such a long time, but I actually finishing sixth format feel there's always a big pressure of what to do at uni and at that point I definitely had no idea. So I took a few years out. I only intended to take one year and completely forgot to apply for uni the next. But then within that two year time I was like, oh, I'm really interested. I'd started to notice people around me and I was being really aware of maybe what sort of things might change the behaviours and what was I having to do to adapt what I sought from trying to work from people. So I applied for psychology, actually applied for neuropsychology. Quickly realised the neuro bit was a bit not how my brain was working, but I loved the psychology aspect of it.

(: 03:02

So I did my three years and then I applied for a master's and moved down to London to do that and it was in clinical mental health because I hadn't had, for all the best intentions, I couldn't get any work experience whilst on the undergrad. And I came to London, got on this master's course that gave me a placement and it was with an adult rehabilitation centre and one of the ones in North London and really enjoyed it. Got a job as a part-time job within three months, which was crazy, which was working in a hospital and I didn't expect to get a holiday at a job straight away, but it was really nice. I worked in CAMS and it was eating disorders and really landed on my feet there. Absolutely fell in no good working with kids and I thought this is a really, really difficult area.

(: 03:51

But it was great to actually work with the clinical psychologist, the psychiatrist, the family therapist, and really, really enjoyed that. And it was through being on there that a lot of the support workers were going onto the clinical psychology route. So we'd sit and talk and find out what that might be. And after three years I then thought about I need a bit more of a different experience. So I moved on to work for talking therapies and trained as a PWP and really enjoyed actually the assessment and the therapeutic work that youth that I was doing. And I just really found that I really wanted to connect and work with people. I wanted to then think about what I could do on the doctorate and what other experiences I wanted to actually have. So I always found that it was something that I really wanted to really strive to get those placements and we can get that varied work and figure out which area do I want to work in. And it was only the fourth time of applying that I got on, so I didn't have to wait a few years, which quite used to rejection now, which is quite an interesting thing. But fell in love on the course with health psychology, which was not an area I thought that I would necessarily go into. And I'm just really grateful of all the opportunities that I've had.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 05:06

Oh, David, that's like your winner's speech that's like beautiful, so nice. And I kind of like that you said I only applied four times, you still feel like you won a prize only four times, whereas for many people they might stop it two or three and be like, oh, it's not for me. But you were like, it's obviously not my time. I'm not ready for that yet, but when I get there it's going to be fabulous. And I think that's exactly how I felt. Really. I'm envisioning this batch that said Dr. Marianne, and I'm not stopping until I get there. Well, I'm envisaged the trainee clinical psychologist and actualize that really it wasn't going to be another way for me. That's what I was doing. And sounds like you really felt similarly.

Dr David Singleton (: 05:56

I think I did, and I think I was always looking and trying not to have just all eggs in one basket. So I was thinking of alternative ways because I thought I didn't want to be doing this 10 years later still applying because I would've felt, oh dear, it's clearly not meant for me at that point. But I mean I know people who've been applying seven, eight times and gone on. So I know it's not unusual and sometimes it can feel like what more can I do? But I was quite thinking I did want the clinical psych, that's what I was aiming for, but I was starting to get my little backup plans of maybe what else could I do? If this isn't going to work in my favour, what can I go for? But the goal still, the ultimate goal is to still get on.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 06:33

Absolutely. And I think if it is taking seven or eight times, I think if people are in that position now, I think it's important that you look at whether you've got varied clinical experience, relevant clinical experience, ideally supervisioned by a qualified HCPC psychologist that you've got some research, but if you've still got all of that and it's not working, I think often what people are lacking is their reflection and their ability to really just transform answers and just like, wow, wow, that's my experience anyway.

Dr David Singleton (: 07:12

And I think often is it's about how you write your statements. And I'm the first to admit that my first couple of statements that I wrote, I looked back and I thought, no wonder I didn't get anything. No wonder I wasn't called back. I mean I did actually have interviews one each year, but I did think full, that's not written very well that I'm almost bullet pointing it and not really, this isn't going to be a formula that's going to work. I need to revisit this. And then it was speaking with like you said, A-H-C-P-C, clinical psychologist, getting advice, getting some tips, really trying to think about how I still make it me, but how I can sort of improve it and improve my chances. And hopefully that did work.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 07:52

Absolutely. And I think if you look at the form and you're completely daunted by it and you dunno where to begin, it's maybe a sign that maybe it's not quite your time just yet because it should kind of be comfortably within your wheelhouse. I think that's my take on it anyway.

Dr David Singleton (: 08:09

Absolutely. And I actually pulled an application the year before, my first one, my friends around me who were also in that sort of world and the supervisor at the time really wanted me to go for it. And in the end I was like, I'm not ready. So I just didn't do it. And that felt right for me. And whilst I may have felt ready at the time in the first couple of applications, I look back and I think actually I'm really grateful I didn't get on because actually I think I wouldn't have been ready. And the time that I got on, I did want it. I wasn't overly thinking about it all the time. So it felt a really nice bonus, but I felt really ready and I'd gained so much more experience in clinical and research work that it felt the right time. And so I was really pleased that actually it was the fourth time, which is strange saying it, you want to get on the first time actually reflecting back it was right that I got on that fourth year.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 08:59

Absolutely. And you don't want to be the least qualified, least ready person on your cohort because that's just not where you want to be. So I've spoken on the podcast before that I actually originally went to uni to do forensic science and in those first weeks I was just crying every evening because I hated it because it was such a steep learning curve for me and I just thought, this is not how I want to be. Originally I was going to do psychology and then have my head turned by forensics and you can make choices to put things right again. So I transferred to psychology and as they say, the rest is history.

Dr David Singleton (: 09:37

It's nice to actually look back at our different journeys actually. And I really, really enjoy, I've got different friends in different psychology sessions and it's really nice just to see how different interests going different ways, and it's just finding that way and almost trying to reduce the pressure of I must do this way when actually it's really nice to have a flexible sort of mindset of being like, you know what? I'll try it and if it's not for me, maybe what other area is going to be for me and you want to be, for me, I always wanted to work somewhere and in a setting I enjoy coming to work. I didn't want to feel like they said almost tearful or just questioning things all the time. I actually wanted to be enjoying it. And that was the main purpose, one of the main purposes again that I went for the clinical room.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 10:20

Absolutely. We all, because we are human, sometimes have days where you think I'd rather just sit and watch Netflix today or I'd rather go and sit in a coffee shop and watch the world go by. Of course that's normal. But actually I swear guides honour, brownie honour, I did 'em both. When I'm at work, there's nowhere else I'd probably rather be. I love what I do and as soon as I'm with clients and doing what I do, obviously I love my children, I love holidays, I love all that, but it doesn't feel like it's an effort or it's an endurance. Does that make sense?

Dr David Singleton (: 11:01

It does. And I think there are definitely days that even when you're working that you think, oh my god, I've not got the skills and I'm not ready for this. Or they know that I'm not ready, they know. But actually ultimately that's a Dane. It's okay to have a bad day and it's okay to acknowledge that you're having a bad day rather than trying to be like, no, no, no, no, it's okay. But like you said, for the last year when I've been working in Maggie's in a different centre, it's the first time really where I really enjoyed looking forward to coming into work and being there and doing the work. And yes, the work that I do is really very emotional, but I love actually being here and it's transitioned into this new qualified role that I'm in now. I absolutely just look forward to coming in and that's what I'd always hoped for in a career of having that excitement come to work.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 11:55

Oh, that's so powerful. So powerful. I love that. And some of our conversations have been on camera, some of them have been off camera. So I know that you did a trainee placement in the same organisation in your final year or during training. I dunno if it was your final yet, but actually when this qualified role came up and you already knew you were going to be moving for the course, you were super excited. I don't think I'd ever heard of Maggies, but could you tell us a little bit about the organisation and how clinical psychology fits into the organisation?

Dr David Singleton (: 12:30

Yes, absolutely. It'd be really, really nice to think about that. So I actually hadn't heard of Mike's either until I was looking at placements and I had done my second year of placement in a neuropsychology setting and worked with my supervisor in that placement. She wasn't my supervisor then, but I'd worked with her and she'd left to go to Maggie's and as soon as I saw her name pop up, I was like, I loved working with her. Let's go and see what Maggie's is and went to see it. And I walked in and I've not even been there five minutes and I was like, oh, I want my final year placement to be here. This is a compassionate place to be, which I know is going to be one hell of a stressful year. This is where I would like to be in that space, feeling contained, feeling supported, challenging work, but going to be meaningful.

(: 13:19

So Maggie's is a cancer support charity. It was, oh well the first centre of them back in 1996 and I think back in 1994 is when they really started planning. And it was started by a lady who was going through her second breast cancer experience and she'd noticed that there wasn't anywhere to actually be outside of this clinical hospital environment where she could get emotional support, just someone to listen, someone to talk to in a really nice relaxing environment that wasn't a hospital corridor with neon lights everywhere with medical professionals who were so busy but just couldn't have the time to just spend those extra minutes just to be able to talk to with people about their experiences with their families and friends as well. And it was through that and her husband that they started to think about what could this place look like?

(: 14:15

And so the first, sadly, Maggie passed away the year before the first centre opened and since 1996 it's just developed and developed and it's now there's 24 centres up and down the uk, four internationally with goals and aims to really just get more and more of these many centres up and down at the country or the May cancer hospital sites and at mag's you can come in. It's the really friendly environments, very homely, very cosy, the hospital, we link very closely with the hospitals and the oncology department to try and build and keep those networks and connections because we know the NHS staff are so overworked there under resources that the pressure is so much there that we want to be able to work alongside them. And so people coming to Maggie's, it can be anyone affected by cancer, either the person who's experiencing or family or friends, and they can come in and just be greeted and welcomed into the centre, make yourself at home here.

(: 15:17

Let's have a cup of tea, have a cup of coffee, have some biscuits or some fruit. And we have cancer support specialists who will sit down and talk to visitors and just get to know them. If they put any questions, welcome them to the centres, show them what we are offering in a programme that might be really helpful, encouraging people to come back and they can be there. They're really skilled clinicians. They can be nursing backgrounds, they can be radiographers. Occupational therapists often always work within hospital settings and they know the links with the services, but what we also offer is financial support and we have benefits advisors, but any questions that we might have in terms of what somebody might be entitled to, any sort of difficulties with any sort of housings of lots of advice that you can get. But then if someone is really struggling with their mental health and their cancer diagnostics, then if the cancer support specialist feel that it would be really helpful to have some more further support.

(: 16:19

That's when clinical psychology comes in. And it's not just clinical psychology actually we have counselling psychologists as well, and we offer that space to have one-to-ones the people, but we also can offer couples work. We can offer group workshops as either standalone ones or a course on various different topics of what the people within our areas in our communities are saying that they're really struggling with and tailor that to them. And we just want to be part of that experience so you come see us when you need us in terms of just being able to pop into the centre, a lot of it is drop in. Of course psychology, we do have appointment, so we do see people within our timetable, but it's one of those things where you can come and use us for however long you need. If you don't need us end of the point, that's great, but when you need us again, you just come through the door, come and see us, come speak to us and have that emotional and psychology support as well as all the practical support as well.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 17:15

Fabulous. I think it would be a wonderful idea to invite you back on and we'll really think about working in cancer services psychologically, so that might be a really interesting future episode. It sounds like a lovely, lovely place. And I loved hearing you say that actually you recognised that that was going to be a really compassionate space to help you transition during your final year of training. Could you talk us around your awareness of becoming qualified and moving into a band seven?

Dr David Singleton (: 17:49

Yeah, I mean, wow, it really, you don't really think about it on the course until you're starting to realise that you're working through your final year. Even when I picked the placement, which was in second year and I knew that it was going to be my final one, it hadn't hit me in terms of the transition and what that's going to be like. And it really probably didn't even hit me until the thesis was coming to an end because all you focus is on finishing that thesis and making sure it's done and getting through the five oh. But I think what was really nice is whilst our uni and I know about with the uni to probably do this as well, is helping you try and get prepared for it. What was really nice was the centre that I was in and I wasn't looking for applying for a job straight away as and when the job came up because I knew that I was going to have an extended summer, I thought, oh, I'll wait until more the summer months before I start looking because who's going to hold a job for 10 months or nine months?

(: 18:44

I was said, no, they'll want someone now. But a job came up. My supervisor really encouraged me to go for it. I went for it. I was very happy and very honoured to be offered that job. And it was through speaking with them about what that's going to look like for when I come. What sort of support have I got in place? What can I sort of expect both in terms of the induction, but what my role will be? And because I'm coming in as the only clinical psychologist there five days a week, we do have other people, like I said, we have someone here who's two days, someone has one day, but I will be the one who's there five days and what that's going to look like, what my responsibilities will be, but how are they going to help and support me into that?

(: 19:26

And I was, like I said, because I was already in the organisation, it was really nice that the organisation where I was at that centre started to prepare me through the support with all the staff and then meeting the new teams very gradually and then starting with a really nice induction where I went up to the original centre in Edinburgh and it's been really nice and I have felt through the support and through the open channels of having questions and then being able to just get ideas across and learn a bit more, that's been a really nice transition period rather than just having applied for a job, not really knowing what to expect and then bump you star. It's been a really gentle period of where I've been learning and able to ask and find out and a really nice gentle induction

Dr Marianne Trent (: 20:13

And I think the right service will wait for the right applicant as well. So I know that you wanted to go off travelling and spend some time really decompressing from training after it finished. And that was something that it would've been very important to me apart from when I qualified, there were no jobs and I qualified in 2011. It was just kind of coming to the back end of the recession really started in 2008, which was my first year of training. It meant that I had no job from when I finished in September until December and ate a lot of lentils and walked a lot of places and tried to minimise my life a little bit. But it gave me a wonderful time to consolidate what I'd learned and have some downtime. And I've always been a keen traveller. I would've liked to have done some travelling what was no money around and I had a mortgage to pay for.

(: 21:08

So yeah, I think ideally I'd always say try and have a bit of time where you can just be you and not have to worry. And also if you can afford to not work for a little bit, you're not using any annual leave. So it's kind of a really nice chance to have a bit more of an extended break. And when I was in my second year, this first placement of my second year, someone in the year above got a job in paediatrics to start the next year, but they still had a whole year to go and at the time it felt like, wow, but actually if the right job comes up, why not apply and figure out the details later? But that's actually incredibly supportive and especially if you're moving, if you've got an unconditional job offer, it's kind of quite helpful to be able to show mortgage lenders and stuff as well. You're like, you're going to be sorted. You're going to be working and you're going to be working at this level. So yeah, I really love that the job spoke to you and you just went for it.

Dr David Singleton (: 22:12

I honestly really connected with so many things that you've said there. I mean, first and foremost, I knew going into the doctorate that it was going to be such an incredibly tough three years. I mean, it's a doctor, it's not going to be easy. So I already planned in advance being like, right, I need some time off after that. So I'd put money away each month, even just a little bit over the three years to cover any expenses that I would need to have a month of not being paid. Ideally I would've loved to have gone for longer, but longer money and time, that's not always going to be possible. But I saved all of my annual leave as well for that rest of the year. So then I had two months off and it was just what I needed because I think that break, like I said, not only just consolidating, but allowing your mind and your body to just actually completely and utterly switch off and relax because without even consciously being aware of it, it's been such an anxiety and intense time, particularly when you're going through all, you think it's over When you hand me thesis in and then you, oh no, I've got the Viber coming up now and then after the value that, oh no, now I've got all of this paperwork that I need to do by certain days and then I need to apply for the HCPC to make sure that when I start work I'm actually at the recognised and accredited level.

(: 23:22

So there's a lot of things that are still there bubbling under. So that time apart off was so needed. And I think you're right. I mean, you want to be able to apply for something that's the right job and if it's the right job, they will wait for you. And it wasn't just me and my course, there was lots of people on our course that had applied jobs and they were waiting for them, but it must have felt so different back in 2011 then when the jobs were there because there were so many jobs coming up. I mean the year before thinking, oh, look at all these jobs in London, which is where I was move them back to there'll be none the logo and there'll be none left. And there was always pages and pages and pages of jobs. So it never fell. I never felt worried that I wouldn't get one, if that sounds strange, but it must've felt strange back in 27 though for you.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 24:12

And actually my final placements in my final year were systemic and then psychodynamic both in adult services, think there was some lifespan work in my systemic service, but when I qualified, there was 16 of us when we qualified because someone from the cohort above had dropped down after having a baby. But of those 16 people, how many people do you think had jobs, David, when the course finished?

Dr David Singleton (: 24:37

Oh, so if I was going to say now, I'd probably say all 16, but if I think about back in 2010 from what you've said, let's go for five

Dr Marianne Trent (: 24:45

Three

Dr David Singleton (: 24:47

To me. Oh wow, okay. It's even less. Wow,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 24:50

Three. And so it was just really hard going and it wasn't a case of, oh, there's this job that's come up in an area that is a bit of me. It was this job has come up, I'm applying for it. It doesn't matter what it's, and I probably felt like Cams was a bit of my weakness really. I'd done honorary work in the brownies and I was wise owl in the brownies, and so I'd worked with children in a fun capacity and then I did placement as an assistant psychologist in a youth prison. I'm not cool enough to work in a youth prison is what I've learned. And then I did a lifespan intellectual disabilities placement on training and a CAMS placement, and then I did some work with children's and children and families during the systemic. But I definitely felt like, it's weird because listening back to myself now, I'm like, you were really experienced with children, but you know what we tell ourselves?

(: 25:53

I was like, oh, this is my Achilles heel, something that I'm not that good at. But listening to myself now, I can see why my first qualified job was in counts. You almost don't realise how good you are or I don't know what you've got going for you, what your assets are, I think probably until you pass by. So I genuinely, as I reflect on it now, which sounds a bit silly, I felt like it was really fluky that I'd managed to get this job in Birmingham. So I was having to commute 24 miles each way, which was not ideal, but I know I would not have applied for that job if it hadn't been for the circumstances. I started that at the start of December, 2011 and it was amazing. I was working in an award-winning service for patient safety. So it taught me just really robust practises for operating a really safe, brilliant, compassionate service.

(: 27:00

But also because at the time it was using the choice and partnership approach capa, it taught me about job planning and managing my own time and not taking on more than I'm meant to, but also doing your fair bit and making sure that you are doing what you are supposed to be doing. And my manager and my supervisor and all of the team were just incredible. And actually in terms of the transition, I thought I needed kid gloves. I thought they would say, well, because newly qualified we're going to do this, we're going to do that. They were like, we've been waiting for someone in this role for so long. You are qualified. Here's do it. We trust you. Get on with it. And that was actually really empowering. I dunno what your experience of that is, but yeah, basically in a nutshell, I'm delighted and I would not be the same clinician now had I not got that job and it all worked out beautifully and I was able to afford that bit of time off. It's a very long chunk that I've just said, but I hope it kind of resonated with you.

Dr David Singleton (: 28:03

It really does. The thing that really resonated was about that starting that role and actually whilst it's, for me it's been a really nice gentle introduction and yes, there are certain things that they said, oh, and we would like you to be doing this and we want you to be in this, giving you a bit of time to settle it in. It's also nice hearing already straight away and they're so compassionate and so lovely here because they said, we know that you've got the experience, we know that you've got these skills, we know that you can do it, Derek do it, but not wanting to put that huge pressure on you. And they sounded maybe like that was you as well. They wanted to do that. They didn't want you to feel that all completely overwhelmed or overworked. And it's exactly what it's been like here, which is nice. Not only they know and they're supporting your own belief and your skills and you as a clinical psychologist, but they're wanting to make sure that you are caring for yourself and you're not pushing yourself to the limits. They care about you

Dr Marianne Trent (: 28:55

And they believe in you and hopefully they've met you at interview they like you hopefully in the setting lives of being interviewed, they probably interviewed probably 10 people or something because everybody was desperate for jobs. Whereas actually when I was in my most recent NHS service, sometimes you'd put a band seven out and one person would apply because there were so many jobs and I dunno if you've got the job, it's because you've met the standard and they think that you are going to be not just a good fit for the clients, but they think that you are going to be a good fit in that team as well. When I've worked on selection panels, actually sometimes I think about if this person was in my team, and I've done this in training selection panels too, if this person was in my team, how would I feel if I'd forgotten my wallet and I needed to go and borrow a fiver from them?

(: 29:48

Is that something I'd feel comfortable doing? Would it feel okay to have them make me a cup of tea or to offer to make them a cup of tea? How would it feel to say, oh, how was your weekend, David? What are you looking forward to? Or are you going on any holidays? You've really got to think about this being not just clinical work and if someone's got an autism diagnosis or something, it might be like, I don't want any of that. You can make a job what you need to have for you. But for me, they chose me, they Marianne as well as a psychologist.

Dr David Singleton (: 30:26

It is about that connection with them, isn't it? You want to be able to have that connection and to have that really nice team dynamic and yes, I guess that's really nice about having the choice I guess for an interview and feeling like they do want you and hearing it as well. Ever since I found out about the job offer, it's been about, oh, we can't wait for you to start. So looking forward to you to start. I had the other sense 10 being like, we're going to really miss you. They're going to have such an amazing person that's joining their team and it just really builds, like you said, that the belief in you that actually you are good enough for it. It was meant to be in a way. If you think about it that way, then you do deserve it and it's really nice. It really is a positive feeling rather than going in with all those question marks connected, did they really operate? You've had all that really nice buildup.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 31:18

Yeah, absolutely. And the imposter syndrome is going to be rampant, but you kind of want it to be because you don't want to be going in as arrogant and renegade. And where the imposter syndrome was greatest for me, and I'll be interested in your take on this, is I was working in a screening service one day a week, one day a month it was, I would go in actually to the children's hospital and work on the advice and support line that also did all the assessments for all of cams for the whole of Birmingham and was exciting. It was daunting, but I learned a lot from the experts there. So the emergency response and assessment team were based in the same office and so I'd be able to hear all of their kind of decision-making, but one of my jobs was to talk to either referrers or kind of parents and sometimes young people on the phone to think about whether an assessment was going to be the right thing to do.

(: 32:15

And then I'd get stacks of referrals coming in throughout that point of the day that I was there and I would need to make a clinical decision about what to do with that referral, whether it met clinical need for service, whether we'd step it up to the emergency response assessment, whether we'd step it down, whether we'd think about doing an assessment to think about what needs there might be. And it's that clinical responsibility, it's that actually I can decide this all by myself. It was quite hard and it takes growing into that. But what somebody said to me at the time was It's okay, you just make your decision. You say what your decision is and in those days I was writing it all and you evidence the information that has helped you to make that decision. And I still do that now. And even if we're looking at risk, you're thinking actually, I don't think this person needs admission at this time because of this, that and the other and to mitigate this risk I'm recommending and have implemented this, that and the other. And it's just that if you are in a court of law and you find yourself having to speak to Your Honour, you just need to be able to evidence the decision you've made and why.

Dr David Singleton (: 33:43

Yeah, and I think that's something that's going to be with anything. It's going to be time in the role and building that sort of belief and that trust in yourself. And I know that that's going to that here as well. And all the different types of responsibilities that I'm having, one of them is about referrals when it comes to being like, do we think it was the psychology or do we think that actually we're going to ask for it just to be active waiting or monitoring and we'll see if that happens or it might be allocating to different people here who sees them. And there's a lot there and I think I am fully aware that my imposter syndrome's going to jump out. It's jumped out to me the whole last three years and actually well before that as well when I was just trying to gain experience.

(: 34:29

It's something that's never going to leave I don't think. And I think that's a healthy way of having that because like you said, you don't want to come in and I don't think it's, you ever want to have been like, I know everything because that's never going to be true. And I really enjoyed a postgraduate conference that we went to at the doctorate, the uni where I did the doctorates at and it was I clinical psychologist who'd been qualified I think 20 years and they said, I still feel like I am an imposter here. It doesn't leave. And it was so nice and quite warm and to hear that it was like, oh good. So it's not just us, it is going to still continue, but then that's the motivation I guess in the drive just to continue and always wanting to be open to learning more and learning from others. And that's what I'd love working in an MDT. So this environment that I'm in now, this is an MD T within Maggies but also well linked with the MDTs within the hospitals and I love that because actually gaining all the different skills, experiences, perspectives of others can only just make co work better.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 35:34

So important. And as you're talking, I caught sight of my trophy because recently the podcast has won an award as both best Science and Technology podcast 2024, and I think if you're struggling with imposter syndrome, just make yourself trophy. I love having this trophy. I might make myself one for best clinical psychologist 2024, you can be 2025, we'll let you do it for a year first and then you can be 2025.

Dr David Singleton (: 36:02

Well congratulations, first of all, that's really good, but that's actually a really nice way of trying to manage that. Impost syndrome is something that they told, they actually encourage us to do it back when I was in talking therapies, but it has been something that's actually been quite a, not regular in that every week but quite frequent within the year of different services I've worked in is when anyone leaves you any feedback, take it and pop it in a little folder and then when you're having a bad day and you really doubt yourself, go back to that and actually look at what people have said. And actually it really is quite a nice self-compassionate thing to do as well of just being able to manage that and that it's okay that we're having a day, but let's not listen to all them thoughts. Look at all of this, look at these experiences of actually where you are enough, you are doing well and you do know what you're doing.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 36:51

Absolutely. I have one as well and I call it the SMILE file, so if you ever need to just feel a little bit better about yourself, then you have a dig into the smile file. There's actually an episode that's coming out that people will already have been able to listen to on I imposter syndrome with details on screen for that. But if you search for the podcast or wherever you're listening or watching, you'd be able to find that episode. I also heard you say that you are a qualified PWP. There is an episode that people will have been able to listen to with Ben Oloffson and where we're talking about what A PWP is, how you train as one, all of that jazz. So just another little, that's what I've learned as a podcaster, you have to keep talking about all your other stuff as well.

(: 37:36

One of the key differences I think when you go from trainee life to qualified life is that certainly from my experience, I went from a really supportive tight-knit cohort and a varied week went from a Monday and a Friday were usually academic days and then I had a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday placement days. And so there was that really nice cushioning of weekend training, learning placement, trainee learning or study day. And depending on what stages of the career I was at, I couldn't really believe it when I started qualified life and every day I was in a split post when I first qualified, but every day I was working for five days a week and I was having to pay for my own fuels and it was hard. It was a hard adjustment. So I missed my cohort and I couldn't quite believe I had to do it every day. Is there anything you miss or kind of found surprising about moving? I was also worse off. I was having to pay for my fuel and because I only went from band six to band seven and I then had to start paying cancel tax, I was worse off when I qualified than when I was a trainee. But yeah. How about you? Is there anything you miss or anything that kind of was different than you expected?

Dr David Singleton (: 39:07

Yeah, there's been quite a few different things that I do miss and with you. I really miss my cohort. Our cohort started off with 33, we dwindled down in the final year to 28. We have few there, few on the court had babies, so we have, I think there's four or five babies from our cohort now already. But I really miss just being able to connect with them and see them very regularly. Just having someone else you can just bounce to so quickly so you just effort this, just everyone's around and it felt like that tight sense of cohort and yes, with such a big group you do have the little groups as well of where you feel more closer to, but I think we all probably really miss that of just having everyone at arms time. I do feel very lucky that I've had a very supportive math placement, very supportive, first qualified role.

(: 39:56

So I think that's really nice to transition to and have that bit of a consistency. But another thing that I do really makes is tu days. I know I'm not going to get them three days again. I loved it. I was like, oh, I could get up at get six in the morning if I wanted to finish by 11 and oh, got the rest of the day, it's great. So actually moving to five days a week is actually quite a lot. And as with you about the commute, I mean I've lived in Southampton where I've had my car and I've been driving into placement, which is always quite nice. It just gets your attention going, paint it on your way there, listen to music. Not really that stressful because there wasn't traffic didn't tend to be that bad in London, getting used to the commutes, getting used to the armpits in your face again, travelling in rush shower.

(: 40:48

Yeah, that's a big adjustment. And already I've already altered that and I've got up early to set up early and also have a nice little walk before I come in so that I'm not feeling so oh before I walk through the door. So that's been an adjustment. The commute, the five days a week, which has been years since I've done five days even before the doctor, I was on gym four days, the cohort, and actually I say this and I've always warned my family and friends and if I ever start talking about this again, same note, but I actually do really quite miss a bit the research bit as well because it was really nice to have the varied role there and yes, the thesis is really hard and stressful, but it's also nice to have that little bit of time where you've that time just for the research where you're not having to just have your clinical head on. Oh yeah, several things I do miss.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 41:39

Yeah, hopefully there's lots of benefits to being qualified as well. It's okay to have both of those things. It's okay to where you are at, but also miss aspects of previous important stages of your life. So I was reflecting on this the other day. I wish I'd really connected to the last moment that all 15 of us, all 16 of us would ever be in a room together, and I don't think I really did. And even at graduation that didn't happen because one person had had to redo a year, so we didn't have that then. Now people have moved as lives do. Someone's moved internationally. I don't think we're ever all going to be together again. And maybe some people wouldn't even want to. I'd be up for it, I'd be up for it, but I just wish I'd connected more. I think it's all such a rush, isn't it?

(: 42:39

In the last few weeks where you are vibing, where you are doing your revisions, where you are perhaps going to last minute catch up study things, but before you know it, you are done. And I don't think we got a photo of us all together on our last day. I wish I'd been more mindful of that. So maybe someone listening to this will be like, yeah, that is significant. That is important. I would like to really plan a thing and maybe get someone to make sure they're taking photos and I don't think we really did that.

Dr David Singleton (: 43:13

Yeah, no, that is actually really nice to think about. I mean, we did have a photo on our last day, but not everyone was able to attend. So actually the last time we were all in a room, I don't know when that was and that's sad to think about that actually. But then life happens and people can't always be there, but it would've been nice to maybe think about that. I think once the Viber happened it was like, I think we've only got two more dates together. It was the whole cohort and I actually wish maybe we would've been able to do a few more things altogether over the three years. I look back and think, whilst that's a nice reflection to have also, people do have busy lives. People work commute in long ways as well. So that's again, not always possible, but that's why it's also nice to look back and think, I'm going to miss the cohort, I'm going to miss the close-knit groups, but I'm also really glad that we've formed and we've had that time together. We will still keep in contact. It won't be the same, but we still will and it's exciting for this new role, we're all ready, we're all there. We're all now being, this is what we've worked for, this is what we dreamed of and we're here now. Let's enjoy it. Because yes, there's things that we'll miss, but there's so many more exciting opportunities just to look forward to

Dr Marianne Trent (: 44:22

And you get to be really excited and proud of your cohort as they grow in their careers as well. People will start to go, oh, I've got an interview for an aa, or I've got an interview for an eight B or eight C and beyond. Or they will be like, well, you've left the NHS, how is that for you to give up your NHS pension and move somewhere different? You will still be source of support and celebration for each other, which is really, really nice.

Dr David Singleton (: 44:51

And it's nice to actually hear of all the different roles we went on. One of the things I think we were talking about within our last few weeks together, where's everyone going? What's everyone doing? Some people, Lou, were talking about all the different sorts of travel plans or the time off then the jobs we were going into, the potential sorts of things that we could maybe look forward to training in later. And that's definitely the things that I've got is moving forward. I've got some goals. I know what I want to still be working towards, but I'm really allowing myself the time to settle into this role, learn what it's like to be a full-time qualified clinical psychologist before I then start thinking what's the next step? I want to give myself permission to actually just be and then think about what I'm line to do, but I know what their goals are already.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 45:35

Absolutely. Good. Well, I might have you back on to talk about cancer if you're up for that anyway, but just before we finish and thank you for your time, I know I have slightly falsely advertised how long I'd keep you for as well because I've been really enjoying our chat. But is there anything that surprised you about this transition from trainee to qualified life? David

Dr David Singleton (: 45:57

Surprised at how, for me, how seamlessly it seems to go. I dunno why I am envisaged it being more tricky, but I think because I'd had a lot of support to get to this part and having that time off really did help that actually it seems to go really nicely personally. That's just a mind. I don't know what other experiences that people may have when they've moved, but I think having that sort of open mind of, we'll see how it goes. We will take it each day as it comes. And for me that was a really nice, really nice transition.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 46:31

Yeah, I feel like I want to ask you which countries you travelled to, where did you go for your little hiatus?

Dr David Singleton (: 46:39

So I was very lucky because my mom, she travels quite a bit as well, and so she was in the Canary Islands for six weeks. Lucky her. So I was like, please, can I come? And so I went to join her and my stepdad for two and a half weeks and just had two and a half weeks of sitting on a beach doing nothing, no emails, no phones or anything like that. It was just so nice to just switch off. And then I came back to London Fi lit, be 48 hours and then went off to Japan for three weeks, which was the most incredible experience completely for me. Just such a different culture, such a different sort of world. It looked so welcoming, so kind, absolutely loved it. Definitely a road planned to go back again and it was nice to travel around to a few different places and it was the best way I could have had to really switch off before coming.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 47:37

Oh, that sounds incredible. I've never been to Japan actually. I haven't done it, but I'll try and get it on the bucket list. Yeah, I loved what you said actually, that you always knew you were having this period of downtime and actually you saved for that and it made me reflect upon when I was doing my undergraduate degree, I always knew I was going to save really, really hard and have six months to go backpacking and when it was hard, when I was having to stay in and do my thesis or prepare for my exams, my housemates actually for various reasons had dropped down a year. And so I was the only one in my third year, but I was almost using how amazing it was going to be to be away for six months around the world just to spur me through the trickier times.

(: 48:29

And I think that that is something that perhaps people could envisage. I'm really struggling with that word today, but I could really imagine using that as a way of managing the stress actually you're going to get to somewhere really, really special where you do get to have that cocktail in a coconut and watch the sunset in Thailand or whatever it is that floats your boat. There will be hard times during training, there will be hard times during qualified life, but it's making sure that you've got good work life balance to help bolster that. I think

Dr David Singleton (: 49:04

I couldn't agree more, and I think that's something I've always tried to do ever since when I worked in Cams and it was the sort of work we were supporting the young people with is we don't always have to have something on all the time. It's not always going to be a perfect happy, great, exciting day If you can have things in your week, months, years to look forward to. It's giving you that motivation. It's giving you that unfit, yes, it's a tough week. Yes, it's a tough day, but look what I'm going for. And that's what really helped me. I mean I did have a very tough year in the doctorate the last year particularly, but it was having these things ahead. We've been like, I know it's coming. If I head down, get this through, you can do it. We've all got it and it's going to be there for us. And then look what I've got and that is going to be when I'm just going to feel so relaxed. And I've obviously never slept better in those last two months.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 49:59

Well long may that last because I think since I became a mother and then got into my forties, my sleep, I look back on my sleep in my twenties and I was like, oh, you just didn't know. I didn't know how good you had it, Marianne. But yes, long may your sleep be marvellous. David, thank you so much for your time. It's going to be incredibly useful for people thinking about transition but also using this as a kind of golden nugget to head towards if they are earlier in their career.

Dr David Singleton (: 50:32

And thank you for having me on. We very honoured to be on your podcast with you and if you do want to have another one, just let me know. Very happy to. But yeah, really appreciate it.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 50:41

Perfect. I absolutely will do. But yeah, wishing you, wishing you well with this first year of qualified life, may it be really special. May it be containing, may it help you feel clinically competent but also happy and it's meant to be and that it feels like a continues to feel like a pleasure to come to work.

Dr David Singleton (: 51:06

Thank you very much. I'm sorry, but thank you.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 51:10

Thank you. Oh, thank you so much to our guest, Dr. David. Doctor. Doctor, Dr. David, you did it. You came out the other side. Well done. And thank you for your time. I would love to know what you think to this episode. Please do come and connect with me on socials where I'm Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere. Please do come and join the free Facebook group, the Aspiring Psychologist Community with Dr. Marianne Trent, which is the exclusive home of Marianne's Motivation and Mindset sessions, which happen each Friday at nine. If it's your time and you are ready for the next step, you are ready to start imagining that trainee psychologist, that qualified psychologist, that assistant psychologist name badge. Then please do consider the Aspiring Psychologist membership. We really do help people to get job interviews, to get job offers, to really get the things they want to happen in their career to happen.

(: 52:12

We get people onto doctoral courses and we help them to feel supported and to learn important skills along the way too. It starts at just 30 a month with no minimum term. Please do check out the website www.goodthinkingpsychology.co. Do UK for more information. Please also consider the Aspiring Psychologist Collective book, the Clinical Psychologist Collective book, and the brand new Kid on the block and autistic anthology, which is real life stories of people with autism diagnosis, talking about their experiences working in mental health. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being such a loyal listener or watcher. If you're looking to become a

Jingle Guy (: 53:00

Psychologist, then let this psychologist.