The 7 reasons you can't be a psychologist

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:00

Ever been told you shouldn't be a psychologist. In this eyeopening episode, we are debunking these seven most common misconceptions that might be holding you back or making you question your compatibility with a career in psychology. Get ready to challenge those doubts and discover the truth about what it really takes to thrive in this incredibly rewarding profession. Let's break down the barriers and redefine your perspective on becoming a psychologist. Stay tuned. Hope you find it useful.

(: 00:40

Welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. But would I be if I had received other messages about myself as part of my journey while I was an aspiring psychologist, would I be if I had already believed certain things about myself, my capabilities, my opportunities as I was growing up? Let's take a little bit of a look into seven reasons people might think that incompatible with this fantastic career of psychology. Reason number one, you won't cope not with your mental health or not with what you've been through or actually what I've recognised and seen in you lately since you've responded to this, that or the other crisis in your personal life. I just think this is horrendous. How is this being told to people by people who are supposed to be qualified, who are supposed to believe in capacity for change and growth potentially to be the people that are supposed to be helping support employees through episodes of crisis?

(: 01:54

This cropped up recently for me as part of a Facebook group that I'm in and somebody's supervisor had actually told them this and I was horrified because for me as a supervisor, I think my job is well, how can I help support you through this difficult time? How can I be my optimal best to give you what you need to if not thrive through this period, survive through this period so that you can go on to have growth and to come out the other side? And really, one of the main reasons I would say that I started this podcast was to provide listeners and the watchers on YouTube subscribe and like if you are watching on YouTube with an alternative narrative, if you are in a team or supervised or know of psychologists who don't seem to want to fuel you, to help you to sprinkle compassion around liberally to make you believe that you can do this or to inspire you to want to do this, you're not seeing that good practise that's making you go, yes, this is the reason I'm doing this.

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This is one of the reasons I put the podcast together to give you hope, to give you an alternative perspective. So the idea that this is being told to people is really horrifying for me. And it made me think about the time that I was doing a master's distance learning whilst working full time. I had had a car accident, I had back problems. I was seeing an osteopath and physiotherapist for due to the car accident. I'd broken up with a partner, a long-term partner at that time. Things were really tricky for me at that time. But at no point did anybody say this isn't for you. I guess because I held it together, I was doing still what I needed to do, but it was a hard time in my life. But that was the cycle of applications that I got onto clinical training. And I do believe it made me a better clinician for navigating those experiences.

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And it also made me reflect upon one of my dear friends and colleagues, Dr. Kara Davey, who lost a child who gave birth to a stillborn daughter. And it had been incredibly difficult, incredibly painful, and of course continues to be as well. It shapes us and our experience and what we think of the world and how we perceive risk and our hope and all of that. But had that happened to her in an earlier stage of her career, she might have felt that she wasn't cut out for psychology or she wouldn't cope with it. Or maybe somebody might even have told her that because of course some certain key events will feel like they decimate us personally and professionally because they're big. Because you will see this either in your own lives as you care about or in colleagues, friends, sometimes big massive things happen to humans and we have to be able to navigate through that.

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And you learn a lot through adversity is what I would say. And it might well mean that you end up making that your clinical specialism as Kara has done. So Kara does lots of work for people that have had loss pregnancies, loss of children, and late miscarriages or stillbirths, and it's incredibly useful. And I know the people that work with her find it really useful that she's had similar experience. Whilst you don't need to get hit by a bus to know that it hurts, it sure does help for your empathy. But yeah, in terms of mental health, I think if your mental health is well managed and you are accessing the appropriate treatment and mental health support if needed, there's no reason you can't be a psychologist. It might be that you use supervision and ongoing therapy and you stay mindful and hopefully by this stage in your life what keeps you well, what helps you thrive.

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And so it's going to be like any of us, it's going to be your responsibility to make sure that as much as possible you are getting that balance. That means that it's possible. And it also made me think about a story that someone had told me about when they were an assistant psychologist and experienced two massive traumas in the same year, a loss of fiance and a loss of a father. But that's a lot to go through. And that person was told by a supervisor, I don't think you are going to be psychologically strong enough to be a psychologist. I think you ought to think about doing something different, which is just incredibly galling. How can you expect anybody to go through that sort of year and not be impacted upon it? But I know that that person is now a qualified psychologist and does a really, really good job.

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And so whatever stage of your career you are as you're listening to this, just be kind. Just be mindful, be supportive. Let's not be a hater. Let's know what we know about mental health, about difficult times, about being supportive. And let's think, of course you might have clinical concerns about somebody's ability to do a job that is a different issue if you don't feel like they are doing things enough to be able to safeguard risk. And that is a separate issue. But the reason to exclude somebody from the career of psychology is not just because they've had a mental health history, isn't because they've experienced trauma in their own lives. This is a case by case basis and maybe someone needs a period of sick leave and that's okay. That doesn't make them a failure, doesn't make them not cut out for the career of psychology, whichever discipline they go into.

(: 08:20

Let's think about supporting our colleagues. So that was reason one. Reason two is that somebody is either diagnosed or identifies with or even just has traits of doesn't want to go through diagnosis, issues of neurodiversity that might be autism, spectrum condition disorder, whatever you call it or refer to it as it might be a DHD, it might be dyslexia, it might be dyspraxia, it might be a whole range of things. And for that I would say let's not be too ableist here. Our clients that we work with are going to be very diverse and why shouldn't our mental health services be made up of people that are equally diverse and colourful? That's what I believe. Variety is the spice of life and how can we learn more about shaping our services and making sure they really are fit for purpose if we are not talking the talk and walking the walk and listening to the voices of people who know what it is going to be that makes a difference.

(: 09:35

And this might be a really nice opportunity to tell you about a very exciting book project that is coming with two of my colleagues, one of whom you've met already, Nikita, who is currently a first year clinical psychology trainee, and Dr. Vicky Jarvis who is a qualified clinical psychologist and very excitingly, this book now has a title. It is becoming a thing and it's beautiful. It is called an Autistic and Anthology Neuro Narratives of Mental Health Professionals. And if you're listening to this and you think, yes, I would love to get involved, there is still time. So this book is for people that either identify as having autism or have a diagnosis of autism. That is what we are looking at. So if that describes you and you'd love to tell your story in a collective anthology, please do get in contact with me and we can do our best to get you in the book, which we should hopefully be on track for publishing in the summer.

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We need to break that stigma that people with issues of neurodiversity cannot be working in mental health. So you don't have to be a psychologist to contribute to that book, but if you work in mental health, we would love to be able to feature you in that if you've got a story you would like to tell. So yeah, somebody with a DHD for somebody with dyslexia for example, you might need some additional support, you might need some planning, some more proofreading. But these are options that are available within universities and when you are employed, there are options for access to work and inclusion and all of that. So if you can have the dream, you can shoot your shot just because those issues might be around for you doesn't mean you can't or you shouldn't be a psychologist. Reason number three, perhaps you are already a parent or you like to become a parent in the next couple of years.

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And for that I would say don't forget, we did interview Rose Dunston who at the time was a trainee clinical psychologist and also a do check that episode out if you think you might find that useful. That was episode 25. I am a parent and I had my children after I finished training primarily probably because I hadn't met a partner that I wanted to have children with earlier. Otherwise, my own journey may have looked different. And all I can speak from really is my experience of parenting now, which is post qualification. And children do shift your priorities. They do make things a little more complicated. They do mean that you need to plan more in advance. But the other day I wrote six chapters of a book in two hours because that is the time I had available. If that had been write an assignment and I had two hours, would probably have got the bulk of what I needed to do done in two hours.

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Whereas when I was training, if I'd had an assignment and I had a whole week to write it, it would've taken me a whole week. I think what parenting does is it helps you identify the gaps where you've got be able to get things done and it empowers you to get them done. Now of course that's if your child is well enough, it's if you've got childcare but a training course and counselling trainee doctorates, you are having to do placement hours, you are having to do university time, you are having to do often work on the side to be able to afford to live. You're having to do assignments. And the same with obviously clinical psychology and forensic psychology. What I would say is if you are a parent already, you do need to have enough hours in your day to be able to do all of the things that you need to do.

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So sometimes it's possible to do your training over a longer period of time, but you would usually still be doing it full time. So you can have maternity leave or paternity leave or parenting leave or adoption leave. But at that point you are expected ordinarily as far as I'm aware to come back and do it full time. So you do need to have enough hours in the day to be able to do it and to be able to get it done and to pass what you need to do. But it is possible to be a parent or even to become a parent whilst you are training to be a psychologist and speaking as a qualified psychologist, it most definitely is possible to be a parent when you are working as a qualified psychologist. So I have to confess, the most I've ever worked as a parent is four days a week.

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For me, it did feel essentially like I was doing five days of work in four, but when I had my second child I went down to three days a week and that definitely made me feel more part-time. But of course that does come with a drop in salary. Feels like a bit of a kicker. But I once worked with a forensic psychologist who didn't at that time have any children and still only worked four days and just had that one day a week for herself, which at the time I found it really hard to get my head around that she'd requested that and she didn't have anything else to do. I was like, what do you do? What do you do with that day? She goes, whatever I like. And I couldn't get my head around why you wouldn't want more money and to work.

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I dunno why I didn't get it. I get it now, I get it now. So yes, that obviously has a financial implication if you do work less but it can help you have a little bit more time for yourself. It can help you have a little bit more time for your children if obviously you do have children. And for me it assuaged some of the guilt that other people were looking after my child or children more than I was. I really loved my mummy days. So I used to have Wednesday off, which was really nice because it was a really nice break in the week. It meant I had Saturday and Sunday, went in for two days, had a day with me and my little boy and there was only us at the time and my husband of course, but he was at work. And then I went in for a Thursday and a Friday and it was marvellous.

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And then when I went three days a week, I Wednesdays and Thursdays off and it just was so good, so good. I love that. I think back to that very fondly and it just meant that I was fully committed as a psychologist on the days I was there. And then I loved being a parent and having the chance to do more of the school runs when they were a thing or go to baby and child groups, do all those things. Swimming lessons, baby sensory gymnastics, just being a mummy and watching my children grow, which was really, really important to me. So you definitely can be a psychologist and a parent. I'm living proof. Let's take a little break here to listen to a jingle about one of my books and I hope you enjoy it and I'll see you very soon

Jingle Guy (: 17:00

If you become a psychologist, let this your guide lessons and experience that will help's right here. This book.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 17:40

Welcome back. In the first half of the episode, we were thinking about three common reasons why people might have been told or might believe they not cut out for psychology. Let's plough on with reason number four is issues of physical health or maybe even that you are a wheelchair user now, I think and hope we are very much moving to a more inclusive, less ableist perspective and viewpoint on this. And if you are a regular listener or watcher on YouTube, you might well recall that we very recently met Dr. Yvonne Waft who is a wheelchair user. We also met Gavin Clarke in episode 1 1 1 and we have him coming up again in one nine and he is a wheelchair user. And so hopefully at least what we are doing with this podcast is we are opening your eyes and your vista for what psychologists look like.

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They don't all walk on legs. Some of them wheel in badass wheelchairs. That is what modern psychologists look like. And of course they might well have more difficult journeys, different kind of different landscape to navigate in order to get to be working in psychology. So Yvonne spoke about in the past that meetings had been on the wrong floor and there was no access for her. But I hope in modern UK certainly that this is changing and that when these things are observed, because of course if there's never been anyone who's a wheelchair user in the team before the building is just not equipped for it, that necessarily these questions haven't cropped up. But once they are noticed and observed, I hope that that action can be taken so that everybody can comfortably use and deliver services regardless of whether they walk, whether they use a stick, whether they use a frame, or whether they use wheels.

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So that is our reason for season five is linked to pay and esteem and respect. Maybe someone has told you you're not a proper doctor, you're not really that important, or is it really worth accruing all of that student debt just to sit around and hear people's problems? I don't think you ought to do that. Perhaps you ought to focus on being a medical doctor. Perhaps you ought to focus on something where you're just going to be more lucrative like law or accountancy, but you get to do what you want to do and what feels like it lights you up and excites you. And that's kind of regardless of what your family, what your friends, maybe what other people in your circle or even in your teens might think you get to do. You get to strive for doing what you want to do and sometimes having difficult conversations can be useful in terms of advocating for ourselves.

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And I know if you come from a family that's kind of very set in what is expectations of you are, that can be challenging, but it doesn't make you wrong for wanting to do what you want to do. And ultimately it is your life. We are not living our lives for our parents, for our grandparents. We are also growing up in different times than they were and we were allowed to make different choices and maybe, I dunno, maybe this is a sexism thing as well. Maybe they think women shouldn't be working. That is still around In some cultures, in some families that's still some people's experience and that is not true either. Regardless of your gender, you can be a psychologist. And so I hope that is useful if that's a message you needed to hear. Reason number six is about career progression. You're not going to move up the ladder.

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There's not enough. You'll be band seven, you'll be band eight. You'll struggle to get much beyond that. It's a bit boring. It's not diverse enough. What can you possibly do? You're just sitting in a chair all day. How's that going to be enough for you to, which I would say that's just not true. I look at psychologists, even my own career. I see clients for therapy. I do this brilliant podcast watching on YouTube like and subscribe, even share this episode. Tell your friends if you are listening on Apple or Spotify, please do rate and review. That would be so gratefully received. I'm an author. I've got four books doing media stuff, tv, radio, print, journalism, online journalism. My career is so diverse and so broad and I see educational psychologists doing similar things. I see counselling psychologists, so my friend and colleague, Dr. Tara Quinn-Cirillo, who we recently co-authored the book Talking Heads Your Guide to Finding a qualified Therapist in the UK was published.

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And she's doing brilliant things as well. You are not limited. It is not a little box that you will find yourself in, even in the teams if you end up employed, there is still diversity in that career. You can still look to carve out niches for yourself and you can also move jobs as well. So I went from being a CAMHS clinician for four years to then moving to become primarily because I wanted to work closer to home and it was a pay rise to them working in an adult mental health service. And it was a very big change, a very big jump. But I guess I was looking at the needs of myself and my family at that time and it's been transformational for me. So had I not had a family, I might well have continued in cams and who knows where I would be.

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I loved my role in camhs, but I also love where I've ended up. So it is a broad career. It is a long time that we will be working in it. That said, please do check out episode 1 0 9 of the podcast, which was myself and Ian Dempsey, an independent financial advisor where we were looking at pensions. Let's make sure that you are going to have enough money when you get to retirement. It's a great episode and it's doing really good things on YouTube specifically. So go and check that out. There is absolutely not limited growth. I know of people working in Band nine, I know of qualified clinical psychologists who have gone on to work director at level in NHS trusts. It's infinitely possible. There is growth if you have the drive. I would say psychology has got the opportunities for you. Last but not least, reason number seven, it's a thankless job.

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You're never going to make a difference. Mental health is too big for little old you to make a big enough ripple that I would say it doesn't matter even if you make small ripples, even if you just do one-to-one work with clients and that makes a difference, that's enough. How many times in our lives do we get bored of hearing? If I hadn't done this work with you, I would've ended my own life. That is incredibly powerful and that matters. Recall some stats on costs of suicide to the economy because of course when life ends, that means they're no longer earning, they're no longer working, they're no longer paying tax, they're no longer buying things from the corner shop. They're no longer going to supermarkets, they're no longer going to gyms. There's a massive financial impact and a loss to society for each and every person who ends their life by suicide.

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And that's not supposed to sound like a criticism. It's not. It's that this isn't just a loss to families and loved ones who care about this person. This is a societal loss. It's a loss of hope. It's a loss of that person's life being different. It's a loss of them being able to do something really incredible for their community, for the world in their living years. So obviously sometimes things go on after people have ended their own lives that go around them as part of people setting up trusts or charities. But how wonderful it would be if that person had been supported to go on to do these incredible things whilst they were living. We do great things. Psychologists are great. Whichever profession, whichever discipline it is that you want to go into, it's just brilliant. I've said it before. I will say it again.

(: 26:59

I have the best job in the world. I get to do so many brilliant things and it's honestly a privilege. It's a pleasure. You can go as big as you want to go. You can do I do. You can write books, you can do media to impact on as many people as you like, or you can keep it as little as you like. But it all matters. And thank you for doing what you do. So we've taken a whistle stop tour through seven reasons that you might have been told or that you might believe means that you cannot have a career in psychology. I'm really hoping we have debunked those myths. And if you would like to connect with me, please do come and do so. There will be a QR code on screen if you're watching on YouTube, but basically I'm Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere.

(: 27:52

Please do check out the videos on screen that are being suggested to you. If you're watching on YouTube, please do consider coming along to the Aspiring Psychology community, which is my free Facebook group. And if you need a little bit more support or guidance, please do consider the Aspiring Psychologist membership. People are getting great results and finding that they even get assistance psychologists roles because they are feeling so much more competent and confident in their abilities. I will look forward to coming to you with our next episode of the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, which will be around from 6:00 AM on Monday. Thank you so much and take care.

Jingle Guy (: 28:29

If you're looking to become a psychologist with this podcast with Dr.