Started a New Job and Hate It? What to Do Next

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:00

What happens when you land the job you thought you wanted and then realise it's all wrong? If you've ever started a new role and felt completely out of place, anxious, undermined, questioning everything, you are not alone. In this episode, we are talking about the mental toll of hating your new job, the hidden role of workplace culture, and what it takes to walk away with your confidence and your sanity intact. Hope you find it so useful. I welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. You are so welcome. I am Dr. Marianne, a qualified clinical psychologist. Now, workplaces can be big and scary places to be, and it's understandable that we might feel a little bit out of sorts when we start a new job, but we would quickly expect that to adjust and for us to feel hopefully like we were in the right place. But that's not always the case.

(: 01:01

And today I'm talking to a leadership consultant, Kelly, about a very recent experience she's had that really has helped her to embody everything that she practises and she preaches. It is a beautiful, curious, thoughtful, compassionate episode. It's like a mini shot in the arm of self-belief and dignity and respect and self-compassion. And I think you are going to love it. If you do, please do like please do, comment, please do subscribe. If you're listening as a podcast, please do follow the show. It's the kindest thing you can do for any content creator that you rate. Let's crush on. Let's meet Kelly. And yeah, I just think it's a great episode and I hope you agree to, I'll catch you on the other side. Hi, just want to welcome along our guest for today, Kelly Marie loves seat. Hi Kelly. Welcome along.

Kelly Lovesy (: 01:51

Hi, Marianne.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 01:51

So we have known one another since we were 11 years old, haven't we?

Kelly Lovesy (: 01:58

Yeah, I drove past our secondary school the other day as I went to visit somebody in the village and realised it had been far more years than I'd given it credit for.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 02:07

Yeah, won't disclose exactly how many years. Well, maybe we will. I'm 43. You are 44. You were one of the old ones, weren't you one of the September babies?

Kelly Lovesy (: 02:15

I was, I was. But it was good at the time because you were always the oldest in the year. Now I would probably like to be the youngest.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 02:22

Okay. So we have stayed in touch. We have seen each other over the years, but recently you shared a Facebook post that was really honest and really resonated with me, and it was around the theme of, oh, I started a new job. I realised it was not for me for a variety of reasons. And rather than kind of grin and bear, it kind of wallow in that pain or make the best of a bad situation. You decided a different course of action, didn't you? Could you guide us through that?

Kelly Lovesy (: 02:53

Yeah, absolutely. So actually what happened was I'd worked in a company that I loved, absolutely loved. I loved my staff, we built the culture and it was beautiful. And then the client base was sold and we had to make all of our staff redundant, so I needed to find a new job. So firstly, I wasn't looking, and I think sometimes that's part of it is you aren't looking so you aren't necessarily taking your own needs into account. So I went and found another job that seemed on the surface it would be the ideal job that I was looking for. But what actually happened is I realised I'd say quite quickly within six weeks that perhaps the business wasn't a fit for me, but I hadn't quite figured out in that six weeks why that was. So I decided I would stay. Maybe it was just nerves, maybe it was somewhere different.

(: 03:41

And that actually six weeks isn't a very long time to get used to somewhere. But by the time we got to the end of 12 weeks, I had changed from being outgoing, talkative, excited, shiny, even to being sad, flat, tired. And there were two things that fundamentally changed it for me. One, I did a day trip to Paris on my own and I walked around Paris and I had this moment where I realised that I deserved to be really happy and I wasn't, and it was quite empowering. And then I went to Amsterdam for work, but for a conference and I did some presenting and some hosting and it kind of lit the fire of who I am. So I came back and spent a week evaluating what was it that didn't work for me in the place that I moved to realise that fundamentally their culture and my needs were never going to balance out. And I took the decision to set up my own company, hand my notice in and see where things took me. And we find ourselves here.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 04:46

So we do. And I mentioned in the comment on your posts that actually I thought this would make a really powerful podcast episode. And I know that potentially feels quite exposing and quite new, but this is not something that doesn't happen to anyone else. This can be more common than we think. And I love your story of curiosity and reflection. And there was no judgement there that you applied to yourself. There was no shame. It was like, oh, oh, I've noticed this thing. And actually that's not helping me live towards my values, which are actually all of these things. And so rather than fix myself, mould myself, Mel, myself to fit this situation, I'm actually going to do what I can within my control to make a change. And for you, that change was taking yourself out of that situation, letting that culture, that organisation carry on as they are because it wasn't important to you to change that. It was just important that you recognised that was not a bit of you and it was not helping you thrive.

Kelly Lovesy (: 05:47

No, and I love to change cultures. In my previous place, we took what was quite a challenging environment and we built this amazing, amazing thing and I would've loved to do that there. But not everywhere is open to the sorts of culture that I love to work in. And so it's not for me to pass judgement on that culture, but it is for me to go if it can't fit with my, it's not your morals, is it? Because that makes it sound a bit sketchy. But there's a part of you inside that you go, this is the level that I can deal with and there's the professional side, but also I'm a human with a family and needs and requirements myself and this is killing me. And so now I feel unfulfilled in both elements of my life and my partner, my kids, my dog, myself, we don't deserve and no amount of money is worth feeling, not the best version of yourself.

(: 06:46

So yeah, I did feel frightened. I don't want to sit here, the most confident person that ever did live and go, this was super easy for me when I did it, my insights went, oh, okay. But the overriding feeling was I was really proud of myself. And I'm also very fortunate because I was made redundant. I have a bit of a financial security that not everybody has. So I also do recognise that I was able to move potentially quicker than some other people may be able to do because of their financial needs and requirements. But the advice still stands in that you can do things over a period of time, but just have your plan in place. I was just really fortunate that I wasn't able to think mine through make a plan and enact it quite quickly. But just because you can't enact it quickly doesn't mean you shouldn't enact it. You just have to do again what works for you in your circumstances. And I was really, really fortunate and I'm very excited and I think if something excites you, you should definitely explore it.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 07:51

Absolutely. And I think it's really, even as we spoke before we hit record, this has really activated your drive system and actually what united demonstrated with your hands like that is a psychology term called cognitive dissonance. And it's that actually they were there. You were here and the amount of psychological effort and shift it would take for you to maybe if you were really hating it and you were up here and they were down there, the amount of effort it would take you for bringing yourself to their level, they aren't going to move, would potentially break you. And we've all got ability to do a little bit of this, but actually if you are always having to do this or always having to do that, it's an indication that this is probably not the right space for you.

Kelly Lovesy (: 08:40

And I've tried to, and I'm not always the best at this because sometimes life takes over, but you can only control what you can control. I can't control other people, not really, not properly. So I can only control what's within my sphere of influence. So that's where I can make the changes. And if other things around me change as a result of that positively, then I love that and it actually brings me so much joy. But I've learned that I need to concentrate on what I'm capable of changing. And you do that with morality and I very much believe saying that I use all the time is lighting somebody else's candle doesn't make the room darker, it makes it brighter and it does not take away from your light. So I try and live that way and I think if you bring your intention into those sorts of decisions, you don't hurt other people because that's the other thing is I wanted to make all of these changes, but I did not want to hurt anybody's feelings. I did not want to cause discomfort to anybody, even the company that I decided to leave, I wish them all the best and I genuinely believe in what they're trying to do. So I think you can exit out of situations with as much dignity as you can that helps you not feel embarrassed or stressed and proud of yourself. Again, you can control your own behaviour and that's really important when you take these decisions.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 09:57

And I know that people's cvs and gaps on their cv, but also how long you've spent at a company can feel like you're going to get that apprentice Alan Sugar question, why were you only there two months? Or what were you doing during that time? And you need to feel like you've got to validate that. And sometimes especially people in aspiring psych roles might say to me, I feel like I need to be there for at least six months. And I'm like, well, it seems to be killing you. Do you really? What about those shoulds, Kelly and the values that we apply to ourselves but we think that we need to kind of live up to as well? Could we talk to that?

Kelly Lovesy (: 10:40

Oh, a hundred percent. So alright, if you've got six jobs that you've only been in three months, people are going to start to question your commitment. And actually you have to start questioning your commitment or your evaluation processes before you take jobs. But we're not talking about five or six. If you've got one, the thing that you, I was going to say need, but it's not a need. Again, it's those shoulds again, isn't it? Is you have to find your narrative and get comfortable with that comfortable. And also I think now do I want to work for somewhere where I can't be honest about the fact that a place wasn't right for me and I made a decision that was right for me, but I'm committed to being at the right place. Look at the rest of my CV where I've been at places six years, seven years, been made redundant from my last role that I loved or I'd have stayed.

(: 11:23

So these shoulds that we put in place, I think we have to separate them out. Some we put on ourselves and some we should be a good person and we shouldn't be hurting other people's feelings unnecessarily. Those are some quite solid shoulds. We need to pay our mortgage or we need to pay our bills. So sometimes there are practical applications that need to take takeover. They are a should. Again, you can't really control that to a degree, but I should be somewhere for six months. I like to challenge with evidence. Where are all the studies that show six months gives you such a better evaluation period than four or that a workplace won't judge you just as harshly for leaving after six months because six months still isn't very long. We shackle ourselves sometimes and women do it more. So there's a really interesting stat that says men will apply for jobs if they are 20% capable of the stuff that's in the job description.

(: 12:15

Women will likely, and this is all likelihood wait until they're 80% capable of doing the job. And it's part of the reason why men have moved forward faster than women. Part of it's been all the things that have gone on in history, but they have this ability to not always take on what everybody else thinks when it comes to their jobs. So they have been historically, and again this sounds maybe a bit sexist but it isn't, it's based on studies, is that we would do better looking at ourselves a bit more like that, what do I deserve? Not what does the other company deserve because I'll give them the very best of me. What do I deserve? Not what should I do? I've got enough shoulds in my life, I've got kids.

(: 12:59

There's a lot that you need to do there, but this is the biggest should you should be able to be happy at work. That sounds like a really obvious sentence, doesn't it? But the question that you asked me indicates that actually too many people don't put that should at the very top of their list. And my last role before the one that I didn't love, I had 120 staff if they weren't happy, I wasn't getting the best of them. If my voice was the only path forward, they weren't able to be creative. You have to create an environment for your staff, for yourself that allows you to fail fast and safely. We get the best results by putting ourselves in situations that make us slightly uncomfortable. We push, but create an environment for yourself where it's okay if it goes wrong. Like Marian, if I'd come to you and said, I really hate my job and the advice you would've given me, what I imagine would've been along the lines of you deserve better Kelly and you deserve to be happy. So would we have been as likely to give that same advice to ourselves, do you think?

Dr Marianne Trent (: 14:04

Yeah, absolutely. And actually how we speak to ourselves can often be a sense of how others have spoken to us. So if we've been around lots of messages that are like, no other people will think this or that, then we begin to internalise that ourselves. But I loved what you said, we deserve to be happy at work. We're going to be there like 40, 50, 60 years,

Kelly Lovesy (: 14:28

152 years if they keep raising the retirement age, you and I'll be working until we die. But you do deserve to be happy. But also if your workplace puts a lot of effort into making sure you are happy, they also deserve the best of you. And it becomes this mutually beneficial relationship where everybody wins like a win-win win situation. And the more of those that we can create in life, the better off people are. Generally I do quite a lot of coaching with women and one of the first things I try to get them to do is when we talk, they're like, I think, do you think or do you know? Let's have an honest conversation. So by saying I think we almost as you said, we are putting self-doubt on ourselves or not demonstrating to others that we have conviction in the things that we're saying.

(: 15:15

So one of the very first things we can do is if I'm in the middle of a sentence ago, I think this, I'll stop and I'll go, actually, I know this to be the case. So I'll use, I think when I only think it, but I've tried over the last few years where I've worked really hard to build up confidence in myself and others to recognise that even small things like I think or maybe I could, am I feeling that way or am I trying to make myself not too much for somebody to project a less confident exterior so that other people can be comfortable? I'm outgoing and I'm quite outspoken, but I can have a filter where is needed. So I won't filter everything I say I will in the right environments, but I've learned that actually I might not be for everybody. And whilst I don't want anybody to dislike me or hate me, it's okay that I'm not for everybody.

(: 16:05

I'm not for every workplace. Every workplace is not for me. I'm not for them getting a bit comfortable with not having to be loved and adored by everybody. Actually you get this freedom that you still got to be a good human. So you can't go around being a horrible person, go, it doesn't matter. I don't care if people like me, but actually saying to yourself, if I've been the truest version of me and that hasn't worked, two choices here, stay change and you get to pick a lane. But I'm really fortunate that I've had excellent support. You mentioned my Facebook post. That post made me cry not because of what I'd written because I was really comfortable with what I'd written, but the support that I received underneath in the comments from people who I'd helped or people who'd watched me grow properly, brought tears to my eyes while I was in the middle of Disneyland Parish who understand as well.

(: 17:01

So that was a weird situation, but putting yourself out, there's really, really hard. But if you do it and you do it in the right way, actually people are fundamentally good. When you speak in front of people for the most part, they don't want you to fail. They don't want you to not do well, they want you to grow. So I think we need to sometimes work on being more comfortable with talking about achievements or things that we've done, deciding to set up our own company without feeling that we've also got to maybe belittle ourselves a bit just to make sure people don't feel uncomfortable with that. That's quite interesting. And from a psychological perspective, I'm sure there's some very technical terms for it, but I do a lot of work on imposter syndrome and helping especially women identify that that is a big driver and sometimes why we don't do things.

(: 17:54

I would also urge people to do a bit of research on imposter syndrome. It's really interesting actually how the mind works in those instances, but there are some really easy techniques that you can use to make sure that even if your inside fields it, your outside is able to not show it as much. And you do that a few times and then you're actually confident about it. It's the bit fake it till you make it, but there's nothing wrong with that that's been going on since the dawn of time. But don't break yourself to do it and be authentic with it.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 18:25

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, just allow yourself to feel, we don't want you to feel overwhelmed, but having a gentle stretch that feels good sometimes. And actually it allows us to then more comfortably grow. And so it's just thinking about actually being well supported during your growth phase. Like you said, people around you, maybe it's people in your network, people in your family, maybe your friends, maybe even people you meet along the way who are also carving out this space that you use them appropriately to help you to get where you need to be. And then like you say, you help the other people coming up behind you as well, but

Kelly Lovesy (: 19:06

Do not tread on people to get where you need to go.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 19:09

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And some of what you were saying, it made me think about when you break up with somebody and you don't hate them, but you recognise that actually I'm not as happy as I think I could be, which therefore means you are not as happy. Even if you tell me you are happy, you are not as happy as I think you have the potential to be because if I was really, really, really happy, you would be even happier. And so I want that for you, but I also want that for myself. And I think the same is true of workplaces. If you are there middling along hating every minute, looking at when it's one minute past five so you can run away, that's not helping the organisation to thrive either. So even though recruitment can be a costly, lengthy involved process, ultimately it's better to make those decisions that serve you better that then help you to thrive going off in that direction and the organisation to thrive, getting someone new in and maybe they can even get someone that was part of the previous recruitment rather than starting again, who then does really thrive and helps the organisation to get where it wants to go.

Kelly Lovesy (: 20:29

Oh, I couldn't agree more. And what I would like to say is there are options. So I didn't just decide I hated it and just quit. And I'm not very much a quitter, but a lot of organisations are willing to look at new ways of doing things. So being able to verbalise what you would like to see and offering to help make that change is a really important step. But you can't flog a dead horse. So there is a level, but a lot of junior staff especially feel like they don't have the voice, but most workplaces do have staff forums, staff engagement surveys, then people will raise their eyebrows, but oh God, I've got to fill another one of those out. So you do need to also recognise where your organisation is trying to make change. And if you want things to change, you can either moan about it and do nothing or you can step in.

(: 21:17

Most places now have women's groups, neurodiversity groups as colleague resource groups be part of the change. If you don't like something, you do have that option to be part of the process that improves things. But it's important because moaning doesn't improve things. You can verbalise what is incorrect, but you need to also be able to verbalise what maybe you would do differently in order to make a change. I always say to my staff when I take them on, I don't have very many rules. I think rules are for driving. Okay, so one is please don't lie to me if something goes wrong because one, I will find out and two, you'll make more of a mess trying to clean it up and then I won't trust you. Tell me and we'll work our way through together. If we keep making that mistake, we're going to have to address it.

(: 21:59

And the second one is be honest. And I don't mean as in you did something wrong. If things aren't working for you, please tell me. But with your honesty, I'd also like a suggestion so I don't have to be right all the time. I'm not the queen of the world, so my team have the right to be heard, but I also need to know what you would do differently because telling me you hate my idea, but having no other way of achieving it doesn't help. And also that can be quite combative, actually approaching it with, I hear what you're saying, I have an alternative thought process. I'd love to be able to discuss with you. Maybe we can find a middle ground also, it's not this idea or that idea. Usually the best idea is this one that hasn't been invented yet, which is a combination of pulling in.

(: 22:44

And the other top tip for me, and I can't stress this enough, is do not surround yourself with people who are the same as you. Groupthink is a dangerous, dangerous, dangerous space. I mean, if you want to surround yourself watching people watching love is blind or Netflix super cool, you need like-minded people. It's a fun time if you want to create a brilliant atmosphere. So I'm very extroverted, which won't be a surprise to anybody I imagine on this podcast, but how do I bring introverts into discussion points and make sure they're heard? It's my responsibility to set an agenda that allows 'em space to be spoken to. I can ask probing questions if I feel that they're struggling to verbalise it. I don't just now they've gone quiet. I just let it go. So surround yourself with diversity, and I mean that in all shapes and forms.

(: 23:29

You can have the classic ones if you're a man, you're a woman, you, you're older, you're younger, you're black, you're white. But I mean people who think differently to you, it's the most enriching experience. My partner is Jamaican. We've been together 18 years and prior to that I had no understanding of that culture whatsoever. The moment I dipped my toe in the water, I loved it. And I have learned so many new things. I can cook different dishes, I listen to entirely different music. That's become some of my favourite. I didn't just end up surrounding myself with more people who are like me. And that can be frightening for some people. So if you are one that's able to do that, just spare a minute to try and create an environment for others who maybe can't do that with such ease. And I've done a lot of mentoring and I tend to mentor introverts because they're the ones who want, I've tried to explain to people.

(: 24:20

Extroversion also isn't just about being outgoing. So I'm actually more of an ambivert these days. So I fling between two, but I'll crash out if I'm not careful and that's something I have to learn to manage. I'm not very good at that by the way. But introversion and extroversion has a lot to do with where you get your energy from. So this conversation will have energised me because an extrovert, we will leave this and I'll be energised for the day. An introvert will have maybe enjoyed at loads, but need to go and have a moment on their own or maybe an hour. So recognising that if you're doing a whole day event and you've got a load of introverts in there, you need lots of breaks and you probably need some food. But adjusting things, it creates the culture. And that kind of centrally brings us, doesn't it background to this whole culture of the workplace. We are all responsible for it. The big boss is not the only one responsible for culture because they can't do it on their own. They have to demonstrate the culture and verbalise the culture and create an environment for it. But it's everybody's job in the workplace to work towards that culture. So yeah, honestly diversity is one of the biggest plus points to a workplace culture that I've ever found. So exciting to hear you point, you should have never thought of yourself.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 25:34

Yeah, I love that. And yeah, even before we hit record, we were thinking about actually it's really lovely to have friends that are at different stages of their career, different stages of income, of wealth, and sometimes you've got a friend who might insist on going first class on a train. Sometimes you might go backpacking and stay in a hostel. It's really useful to have all those different viewpoints in our friendship circles and in our professional and family life as well. I love the idea of finding a tribe who won't just say yes to you but will challenge you and open you up to be curious and look at things in a different way.

Kelly Lovesy (: 26:14

Yeah, for sure. So I had a couple of people reach out to me from my post. So my LinkedIn post did not go into any of my emotional requirements. It's not appropriate in my mind for that environment. My Facebook people is full of friends and people I've known throughout my life, but through the Facebook post, a couple of people reached out to me, one of whom was my sister. And my sister wasn't enjoying the job that she'd moved to and she asked for my advice and I said to her, you already know what I'm going to say and that's why you've called me. I just quit my job because I was so that's the advice I'm going to give. You have friends that you can go to who would give you the opposite advice, but you haven't gone there so you already know what you're going to do.

(: 26:52

So I'm not going to tell you what to do because not my job, but what I'm going to say to you is, you've already told me what you want by reaching out to me. She was like, oh. And sometimes I needed to be that honest, my sister, so I can be as honest as I want with her. But I said to her she needed, one of the things you could hand to people when they're struggling with their confidence is the ability to make the decision themselves. So I did. I said, it is your decision. You know what I would do, and you know what I did and I would back you whatever, and I think you are epic. She's also just built a TikTok page for her plus size clothing that's hit 25,000 subscribers. So I said to her, you know, can do things. So she did that and then another lady reached out to me who was really struggling with her job and she didn't want to quit.

(: 27:39

I could tell by her message and it sounded like neither did the company wanted to quit. So I coached her a little bit on what sort of conversation she could go and have and she did, and now she's had a promotion out of it and is able to influence things and it's really much happier. And I almost didn't post that because I was like, oh, maybe people think there's some self-pity here. And I was like, but there isn't. So it's fine. I self-regulated that 10 years ago I would never have put that post up because I wasn't able to self-regulate that away. But the tribe that you surround yourself with is important, but also take a bit of recognition to go, who did I go to for that? Now did I go to them? I had no other choice. That's different, but who are they and what does that actually mean?

(: 28:26

I wanted from this conversation really and give yourself the value you deserve. Yes, my advice is probably going to be great what I do, and I'm pretty good at the work stuff and I'm good at the coaching, but nobody knows you. And so teaching people, again, I do predominantly speak with women, but that's just been, I think because I did a lot of the women's group stuff. But that bit where you can self recognise to trust this bit, the little bit in there that speaks but has no mouth teaching people to trust that part of their gut, to not assume the worst of themselves to treat themselves. They would treat their best friend if their best friend was having this conversation with them. Don't belittle yourself. People say to me, I'm just so stupid for thinking that please don't. Please don't. I don't want to hear you're so stupid. Unless you just did something really stupid the other day. Put my lipstick in the fridge and I couldn't find it. That was stupid, right? Because I meant to put the butter in the fridge and I dunno what happened, that was silly. But we don't talk about ourselves.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 29:30

I put the pineapple in the cupboard the other day and when I came back to it, I was like, yeah, this pineapple is no longer usable.

Kelly Lovesy (: 29:36

See, that's a silly moment, but we can laugh at ourselves for it. But when we're talking about our genuine skillsets, if we don't talk about ourselves with a certain level of care, not even confidence, that's a whole different thing. And not everybody has that, but a level of care, it's okay to say, I don't understand this, or I'd like to learn more about that. That's really self-care and going, I don't know anything and I'm never going to know anything. Well, what have you just said to yourself and how would you have felt at 12 if your teacher had said that to you?

(: 30:13

Pretty crappy. I would say. Can I say that word on your podcast? But you wouldn't have felt you can empowered, would you? So let's start by empowering ourselves, shall we? By being respectful at the very least, and we'll work on all the confidence and building all the other things. But let's respect ourselves enough to speak about ourselves as we deserve whilst to making jokes about putting pineapples in fridges and lipsticks and freezers and all sorts of things. But we can do that. But be kind to others and yourself. Don't tread on others as you. I dunno if you've seen the vision where somebody's climbing and either you can have your thought on somebody's head or you can bring people with you on the journey. That's your tribe. If you bring people with you, the loyalty that manifests from that, if you've done it genuinely is second to none. Some of my colleagues, my ex-colleagues have become genuine friends because we pulled each other along the journey when one was struggling, the other just stopped, held their hand metaphorically most of the time, but sometimes physically and moved us through together. The people you surround yourself with are really, really important.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 31:23

It's not always easy, is it? Especially in highly competitive industries. So a lot of the stuff I do for aspiring psychs, getting onto doctorate places, sometimes there's only one job if it's an assistant site job and then it's really hard because you want to help them, but you also want to help yourself and you want to get there first. And I think it becomes easier when you are going for a role where there might be 15 to 30 to 40 jobs.

Kelly Lovesy (: 31:46

Oh, absolutely.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 31:48

But yeah, it isn't always easy. But a lot of the work I do is around trying to encourage others, bring them along, don't see them as competition because one day they may be your colleagues, they may still be your best friends, ultimately in 15, 20 years, it'll be nice to think, actually, I didn't elbow them in the side, I brought them along with me. And recently there was an idea of someone said they were getting really behind and feeling really overwhelmed and it's actually, no, we are calling you to come and join us where we are. We're not judging you for where you are right now. This is your call to step forward. But I think listening to you and your conversation with your sister, you are really empowering herself to give herself permission to make that decision and validating that decision as well. We invalidate ourselves so often. I was talking to a friend the other day who has had a series of awful things happen and was almost like, I dunno why I feel anxious. I dunno why I'm not doing better. And I was like, well, hold on a minute. We had this and this and this, and we also got this. I wouldn't expect you to be thriving and vibing and living your best self right now. Well done for breathing.

(: 33:02

Yeah, exactly. You are obviously still putting that pressure on yourself, not allowing yourself to be human and thinking that it's not okay to show your most honest, authentic self. And I would say certainly from our conversations today, it's okay to be authentic. You are allowed to be human. And I love that before we hit record, you were like, actually, this time in my life right now, I don't think I've ever felt better than I do right now. And it's thinking actually that, oh, the future might be really scary, but oh my darling, what if the future's marvellous?

Kelly Lovesy (: 33:41

Oh my God, it's, that hits the nail on the head for me. Why do we always assume it'll be bad? What if it's great? And I was thinking about this as I was trying to go to sleep last night. You know how that works when your brain's like, hello, it's time to think, but society has a big part to play in that. So let's look at somebody like Adele when Adele was younger and bigger and was considered not as glowed up, let's say people loved Adele and they revered her and she's this marvellous woman. She loved herself and she was excellent at what she did, but she decided she wanted to make some changes to herself, which is her absolute right as a human being. And I have seen especially other women berate her, oh, she's fake now. Oh, she was one of the normal people and now she's not really mean things.

(: 34:34

Why should a woman like Adele not be able to decide that she'd like to lose some weight and use some of the money? She worked really hard to earn, to glow herself up, to make herself happy in a different format. Yet you see social media, society, newspapers, they almost belittle her for it now because she's Adele, she has all this support and all of this other stuff. But imagine you're just Joe and this is what's happening to you. You're trying to improve yourself, but people are just chipping away at you. And that's what happens sometimes is even society or social media or the way job specs are written that make it feel like it's not for you. Chip away at who we are. And sometimes people stay still because they think or don't want people to think differently of me. But we talked to think before the podcast started about intent, didn't we?

(: 35:25

And Adele's intent was to make herself feel better. And I think she achieved that. And I don't know the woman, but I feel really proud for her that that's what she's been able to do in her life. And it makes me sad when I see other people tearing her down. And so over the years, I've really changed who I am. 10 years ago, I may have posted something a little bit similar, partially through jealousy maybe now I'm just thrilled. Every time I see somebody do something like that, I'm thrilled for them. I saw pictures of Lizzo the other day who's obviously also been on a journey. She's being vilified because she was proud to be a curvy girl and now she's a slimmer curvy girl. Doesn't mean she wasn't proud in both spaces. So sometimes you need to check the external factors, and that's a really big thing with the impostor syndrome phenomenon, whichever we like to call it, is actually sometimes it's not.

(: 36:19

Sometimes you are being made to feel less than. A bad culture in a workplace is a really not a bad culture. One that doesn't marry with yours necessarily. That's a version of that. That's the thing we need to understand that is something chipping away at our confidence, chipping away at who we are. And if we're having to pretend to be somebody else, it's where the misery comes from. So finding a culture that feeds you. So 18 months ago I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and got a blue badge. Two weeks later my boss gave me my promotion and I'd spent that two weeks worrying that my diagnosis would mean the promotion we'd been talking about and that I'd worked so hard for, wasn't coming my way. And what I got was promotion and a flexible fortnight where I worked nine days out of every 10 to allow for my disability.

(: 37:08

I was honest and open and vulnerable, and that was really hard for me. I'm generally quite confident. So one of my improvements that I'd like to make is sometimes I'd like to be able to be more vulnerable, hence my Facebook post. I have to push sometimes to share, but so much good came out of it. When my dad died, I took a new job two weeks later, I think mainly because I just couldn't be bothered to speak to my boss on the phone at the time. But actually I thrived because somebody took the time to remind me in my moments of difficulty. They still believed in me. And that's what a good culture does when you are having a good culture is great when everybody's great. But what does your culture behave like when things aren't so great for you? That's the real test. When you need to dip out, when you need a moment, when you need the support you've been giving other people, how does it pay you back?

(: 38:01

And when my dad passed, my boss apologised for needing to call me, but needed to offer the job and wanted it to go to me. And she was as lovely as could be about it. And actually it was the bit that made me go, you can't sit on this sofa being sad anymore. You can still be sad, but actually this is making it worse. So we underestimate culture sometimes until we really, really need it, Marianne, and then it really comes into its own. And I have been, for the most part, actually incredibly fortunate to be surrounded by beautiful human beings who have had similar experiences to me and decided sharing them with me and building me was more important than watching me suffer. And you can't put a price on that, just can't. It made me a bit teary, but you can't price on that relationships.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 38:52

Relationships should be reciprocal. It shouldn't be a one way deposit scheme that you're never able to draw down on what you've put in. And if it is, that is one sided and that is not okay. That's almost exploitive, isn't it? It's it's not. Okay. You should be able to lean on as well as be lent on.

Kelly Lovesy (: 39:13

Yeah, I mean the concept of an emotional bank account works really well here, both from a culture perspective, but for yourself. So if we think about a normal bank account, you go to work, you pay your money and your bills come out, you pay your money and your bills come out and it works in a really nice cycle. If you stopped paying your money in and your bills kept coming out, eventually most normal people would be in deficit. Once you are in deficit, it's a lot harder to build that back up again. Well, we give that credence to our finances. So why do we not give that to our emotions? If all you are doing is constantly paying out of your emotional bank account or others are constantly taking from it, but you or others aren't feeding payments, you'll be in deficit. And as soon as you get into deficit, and that's kind of where I found myself a bit, right?

(: 40:02

It's really hard to bring yourself back out again. So it's really important to look at what is paying into your emotional bank account. So my kids pay into mine and then they take out my actual bank account. That's how having teenagers works, especially girl teenagers like having a broke bestie. But you need to pay in. And so many people, parents are paying in so many places a lot of the time, but actually they make the best employees if you look after them because they're used to balancing 962 different tasks in a day. So it's that if we try and simplify things down, you can't drink from a well, that's dry, your emotional bank account. There's plenty of things you could use. But if you can sit back after listening to this podcast and do only one thing, and that is just evaluate your emotional bank account, the state that it's in, the payments that are coming out and the payments that are going in, be clinical about it because actually taking the emotionally the emotional bank account is a little bit easier.

(: 41:02

But are these balanced for me? And if they're not, what do I want to do to adjust that? So actually sometimes you find the friendship circles you're in maybe aren't quite what you needed anymore, and you can silently distance or maybe actually you enjoy running, but you haven't done it for months, you can't find the time. Well by finding that time, would that pay into your bank account and make these other withdrawals easier? And that is what I implore people to do today. If they can find 10 minutes to just evaluate your own emotional bank account and see if it's healthy, like you would do your budget spreadsheet.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 41:37

Perfect. And obviously if people are watching this on YouTube, let us know in the comments what you are making of this, which bits are resonating with you? Let us know. Yeah, how your input and output is working for you, whether it's feeling fair, because we are passionate about this. We believe this is really going to serve you well in your career, in your personal life, in your family life, in your friendship circles. And we need to give ourselves permission to do these hard things. But also, like you said, we deserve to be happy at work. But in our relationships in we get our ducks in a row. And I often think sometimes not all the ducks are uniquely aligned at any one point, but when they're out of line, that gives you an area for growth as well, doesn't it?

Kelly Lovesy (: 42:24

Yeah. Oh it does. Sometimes my ducks are pigeons as well. Do you know what I mean? They're all over the place, but that's okay too. You're right. We get the most growth in our most uncomfortable times a lot of the time. And if your ducks are a little out of alignment that does make you feel uncomfortable, what are you going to do to change that? I'd love to also see in the comments people's stories of where they've done something bold and sharing their experiences of bold feelings and how that's worked out. Or if you are in the middle of feeling something, sometimes just being able to get it from here to somewhere else is the first step in that journey. And I've made it probably sound a lot easier than it was because we're talking about it in such a truncated amount of time. But if you take one step today and one step tomorrow, baby steps move mountains. It just takes time. But that's okay.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 43:19

That is so lovely.

Kelly Lovesy (: 43:20

But they do. Sometimes we look at, oh, I haven't done very much since a year ago. Well, why are we only evaluating a year ago? Why don't we look at ourselves 10 years ago and see how absolutely far we've come. When you're on a weight loss journey, if you only compare it to last week, it barely looks different. If you compare it to a year ago, it's vast. So that as well, like evaluate yourself against real criteria, not last week's criteria. It's not enough time because real change, emotional, physical, mental, workplace change, it's steps. It takes time. Be kind to yourself, be patient to yourself, put a little bit of pressure on yourself as we talked about. It's healthy, but don't over pressure yourself and find a human who you trust implicitly to be your safe space so that when you are having a moment where you don't feel like you can do it, and you will have them because normal people do that, you can go to that safe space, verbalise your feelings so you're not holding it all in, and then that wonderful human comes back to you and reminds you why you're doing this.

(: 44:27

They are invaluable

Dr Marianne Trent (: 44:29

And I think you are quickly becoming invaluable as well. Kelly, I've loved our chat today and I would love if people have got ideas for future ways you'd like to hear from Kelly, let us know that in the comments as well. I would love that. How can people connect with you? How can people connect with you and work with you? Are you on socials? Have you've got a website? Guide us through all of that, Kelly.

Kelly Lovesy (: 44:50

So I've just started all of that up. So again, I wasn't particularly proficient with website building and AI tools because I hadn't used them before. I was a sales director, so I'm very human focused. So I've just set up a website's under construction, but I've set it up, which is called Love See Leadership coaching co uk. And there's a contact me page on there, and I'm just building up a lot of the information now, but I wanted something to be out there for people to be able to reach out. I'm going to start putting social media stuff up. So again, I would love to hear from people on what maybe they would like to hear from me, so there'll be more and more coming along. But check the website out. This podcast has been a great step for building my new brand up. And I will be looking to do some little seminars and things on things like imposter phenomenon, on building your confidence on why it's okay to want to change yourself, but still be really confident in who you are. So you've caught me at the very beginning of my really exciting journey. So yeah, I urge people to reach out, have a bit of a read and we can go from there. And I'd love to hear from people

Dr Marianne Trent (: 45:58

Lucky asked to be able to get you at this stage. And if you're already talking this much sense at this stage of your career, I am so excited to see where you go on this journey. So thank you for spending some of your very precious time with us today and wishing you the very best. Stay in touch.

Kelly Lovesy (: 46:15

You too. Marianne, it's been beautiful to speak to your, see you soon.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 46:17

Absolutely. Take care, Kelly. Oh, what an absolute treat. Thank you so much for your time. Kelly, thank you to you for watching or for listening. When we went off camera, we were like, I wonder if we can find any photos of us together from the nineties. And we kind of thought, actually probably not because it was probably largely disposable cameras. I can't remember any photos we had taken together, which is a shame. But if there are any, then they're on YouTube and you should be too. Yeah, like what a treat. I hope you found this really helpful. Like we said, if you do, please do reach out. Please do let us know. Drop a comment if watching on YouTube and let us know what content you would find helpful in future. If you're looking to become a psychologist,

Jingle Guy (: 47:05

Then let this podcast psychologist.