How to think about and talk about money with Ian Dempsey

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:00

In today's episode, I am joined by a qualified independent financial advisor. It's never too early to start looking at your finances and financial planning. It doesn't need to be as scary as you think it might be. Stay tuned right to the end to get all of Ian's top tips and I hope you find it useful.

Jingle Guy (: 00:18

Dr Marianne Trent (00:48):

Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent, and I am a qualified clinical psychologist. When it comes to talking about money and finances, it can sometimes feel a bit like a dirty word or something that we shouldn't do, and especially when we look at how we've been raised, um, we can experience something called money trauma. And this is the case that we often find when we are working with clients as well, who might have been raised in chaotic situations where there wasn't enough money or where it was their job to budget and make sure there was enough money to go around. Of course, in psychology and mental health, often the relevant experience roles might well be lower paid than might be ideal, and so it can feel like there's not enough money to go around and, and there's not enough money to even consider our financial planning and our options.

(: 01:46

Today I'm joined by a qualified independent financial advisor and we're gonna talk all things money specifically for this audience of aspiring psychologists and mental health. If you're watching on YouTube and you find it useful, I'd love it if you drop us your feedback or questions in the comments. Please do also like and subscribe to the channel, and if you are listening on podcast and it's on Spotify or Apple Podcast, please do rate and review cuz it helps us to bring this podcast to more people that might find it useful. It was an absolute pleasure speaking with Ian and I hope you find it a useful listen as well. I will catch up with you on the other side. Um, hi. I just wanna welcome along our guests for today, Ian Dempsey. Ian is an independent financial advisor, the Money man. Welcome, Ian

Ian Dempsey (: 02:37

. Hello

Dr Marianne Trent (: 02:38

. Thank you so much for being here. Um, people who listen regularly to the podcast will not be surprised that I first stumbled over you on LinkedIn. Um, that is your main hangout, isn't it?

Ian Dempsey (: 02:51

Yeah, it is. I've just, it's just something that's grown exponentially over the last few years and just been a really powerful tool for me to kind of grow a business, leave employment, kind of get out on my own, do it my way, and it's, it's been great. I love it. I love it.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 03:07

Ditto in a couple of days time it will be two years since I became fully self-employed, so, um, absolutely think that LinkedIn has been a really big part of that for me. It's a great platform.

Ian Dempsey (: 03:18

Do you know spooky? It's about the same kind of timeframe for me as well, so I think we must have kind of made that jump around about the same time. So I've had a, I've just hit the one year anniversary for where I am now and previously to that it was a yes. So to near enough to the day we're almost kind of took the jump at the same time.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 03:37

Amazing. Well, it's been lovely having you as a diving buddy, . Hope the water's been warm for you.

Ian Dempsey (: 03:42

It's been choppier times what we're getting there,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 03:45

. Okay, so, you know, I wanted to have you on because it feels like actually something that I've not spoken about on the podcast at all is money. It can be a really tricky area to navigate, especially when you don't have so much of it. Um, you know, like many of my audience, um, are likely to be working kind of banded four n h s possibly Band five, possibly band six, and I had a quick look at what that is said. Band four is, um, yearly 25 grand starting salary with a monthly take home of 1600. Um, band five is a gross, um, 28,000 a year with a take home monthly of 1700. Um, and Band six, if people are working at Band six, it's 35,000 a year starting, um, would take home of 2000. But of course that's, um, some of that will be student loan, but I think the student loan only kicks in at a certain amount. So Band force won't pay, um, student loan, um, unless they do it as an additional payment. But sometimes it's useful to think about what amount we're talking about and some of these people will be footloose and fancy free, but some of them might already have children. And so in these difficult times that we navigate, it's tricky to think about what, what we do with our money and how how we do it, isn't it,

Ian Dempsey (: 05:04

It it's a massive challenge. It's a massive challenge for everybody. And if you just kind of look at the squeeze that we've all gone through in the last two years where you've been through a pandemic, you've been through like markets crashing a wheels, a real squeeze on people's finances, you've had furlough, people losing jobs, then we've kind of come out of that and to talk of a recession, inflation going rampant. It's a real choppy time for people to kind of manage their finances. Whether you're managing a household just on your own one, you're living with your folks, whether you are trying to raise a family and kind of it's, it costs a lot of money to do this stuff and life is getting more and more expensive. Um, and as you know, the, a lot of industries, the, the wages aren't gone up at a, at the same kind of level of pace.

(: 05:49

So effectively, if your wages aren't gone up at that same pace as the rate of inflation, you're almost, well, in real terms, you're losing money year on year, which is a real challenge for a lot of people. Um, but there's lots of things that you can do to kind of make the most of your money. And that's, that's kind of part of what we're gonna talk about today and, and hopefully give you some ideas, some tips, some ways to kind of make that money stretch out a little bit further and just give you a little bit of an insight as to what a financial advisor does. Really

Dr Marianne Trent (: 06:17

Great, because I know sometimes the temptation when we don't understand something or if it feels confusing is to run away and hide and bury our heads. Um, I'm guessing you're gonna say that's probably not the wisest course of action, Ian.

Ian Dempsey (: 06:32

Not, not at all. Um, it like money's a really emotive subject, right? And if we talk about money, there are a lot of emotions that kind of sit behind that and, and kind of do what you do, Marianne, you'll know the kind of the think and the thought process, the mind, how all that works behind it. But a lot of that is, and how you manage your money is influenced by your parents. So how your parents manage money, how you were brought up to manage money, was it scared? Was it in in abundance? And that has a big impact on how you look after your finances moving forward. But one of the worst things you can do is the old ostrich of sticking your head in this sand whenever there's a challenge, whenever there's an issue or a problem. And that's really difficult to do because sometimes that stuff's really stressful and I've been there, I've done it.

(: 07:20

This isn't me kind of saying preach, preach, preach. It's like these are things that I've done in the past and I've been in debt and buried my head in the sand because there's a lot of shame attached to stuff like that. And you think, I shouldn't have a credit card or I shouldn't have this or I shouldn't have a loan, I shouldn't be behind on payments. But sometimes you are. And that's the reality of it. And I think to improve your finances or to get a better handle on it, one of the things that you have to be able to do is be completely honest with yourself. It's been able to look in the mirror and just be honest with yourself. If you've got a partner involved, be really honest with your partner and that can feel really challenging. It did for me, like I hid my debts for the best part of three years from my partner, had the conversation just said, look, this is where we're at.

(: 08:07

She was like, well why didn't you tell me sooner? That was it. Why didn't you tell me sooner? Let's figure out how we'll get out of it. And that was it. And I'd spent three years of stress and worry by not being in control of my finances granted a few years back. But it was, it was tough. And I think like, go back to what you said, bearing your head in the sand and just ignoring this stuff, it doesn't go away. It's just compounding a problem of whether you rec uh, kind of got really expensive kind of outgoings, whether you kind of really need to, to earn more money, whatever it is, but running away from your problems very rarely solves them.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 08:43

Yeah. And there's just so many parallels here with mental health, isn't there, you know, that, that we can think that it's gonna get better, um, if we just kind of ignore it and it doesn't. But of course mental health can be so impacted upon by finances, can't it? Um, you know, the two are very much interwoven and the idea of financial trauma as well, either from, you know, growing up not having enough money or from just the ideas, like you said that our parents passed down to us. You know, money doesn't grow on trees, you know, you're being frivolous, you don't need to spend that. You know, my mom is definitely, um, I think of her approach to money is, um, you know, pounds look, look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves. And if she was taking me out for lunch and going to a shop, I could have any, any sandwich I wanted, but if I didn't pick egg, which was the cheapest, I'd be in trouble. She'd be annoyed. Like that's how I grew up with money.

Ian Dempsey (: 09:40

Yeah, I mean it's quite, quite similar. Like I, I kind of grew on both sides of the fence. So my, my dad ran his own business as an I f A and I've ended up doing it. I dunno why, um, mean mum on the other side kind of didn't have a lot of money. So I've kind of seen both sides of it. Um, and it like, it's a blend of the two in the middle for me. Like there's times when I could, over the years I've certainly done it. I've just been completely reckless and thought stuff it, it'll come back at some point. But it, it's, it's hard managing that stuff. And I think if you look generationally at where your parents or where your grandparents were, there's a few factors that you need to think about when you look at that is actually they've probably got a lot more bang for their buck in terms of their take home pay.

(: 10:21

Like how much could you buy a house for? Like have had clients that have have bought three or four bedroom houses over the year, so like 18,000 pound and like, where, where would you get that now you just don't get it. It's impossible. Um, they get a lot more bang at their buck, their take home pay. The whole structure of work was very different. And you've already gotta just take a little bit of reflection time and look at yourself and think about how many adverts have you e been emailed this morning? How many have you seen on tv? How many have you seen on social media on the radio or wherever. It's thousands and thousands every day that are all designed to suck that money out of your pocket and pay somebody. And it's very hard to kind of push back against that cuz the whole construct of society, marketing and social media is to suck that money out of your pocket and get your spending money.

(: 11:09

And it's so easy to do because you can get into debt now. Like you can get, you can get credit for a pair of regimes that cost 50 quid. You get paid over three months and like that stuff just didn't exist 20, 30 years ago. You, you, you just couldn't do it. You had to have a great relationship with your bank manager and maybe you go to church with 'em on a Sunday and take him in and after the pie to be able to do it. And that's the stuff that you used to be able to do. Now it's anybody and everybody can get credit and it's a, it's a billion pound industry in the UK and that's, I think that's massively part of the problem cause it's just so freely available

Dr Marianne Trent (: 11:44

And we don't have to leave the house to spend now, do we? Whereas, you know, before the internet you absolutely would've had to go out, um mm-hmm . And I think there's, it's easier to spend money when you're not having to actually handle the paper money as well, isn't it?

Ian Dempsey (: 11:58

Oh, it, it's huge. And that, that was a big problem for me. The, and the, the one thing that I did to kind of break that cycle was it, it was the old, like back in the back in old school days before bank accounts and credit cards, it was the brown envelope method and it was effectively you'd get your pay and you'd get a lump of cash in your brown envelope and then you'd probably go home, sit down with your partner and say, all right, this is what we've gotta pay out this month, what goes where? And that would go for your bills, that would go for your shopping, that would go for clothes that would go for work and you'd have a series of brown envelopes to do that. And even working in financial services in, in banking up until about six years ago, I still struggled to get ahold of my finances because it was of what I'd done previously in life and and spent a lot of money on nonsense and just run up debts.

(: 12:43

The way that I broke that was, was exactly that by having cash and physically taking cash out because you're then acutely aware of how much money you're spending on crap. If I want of a better phrase cuz it's tap, tap, tap with the card, 10, 15, 20 quid a day can just disappear a rate of knot. And if you're talking about a salary of two, two grand a month, you only need to do that four or five times throughout the month and you've easily spent a few hundred pound that you probably didn't have. It's, it's so easy to do. So easy to do

Dr Marianne Trent (: 13:15

Such interesting food for thought and um, I think I'm aware there's a bank, a free bank account that allows you to do those pots within. It isn't, I think the Starling do that, which can be yes. Really useful.

Ian Dempsey (: 13:28

You are you my face lit up when you said that. I talked to every client about that account. I, I, I'm pretty good with money now, right? So as you'd expect kind of doing what I do. But we moved all of our bank accounts to Starling about three years ago. So we've got individual account, we've got a joint account and I've got my business account and it absolutely changed the way I manage money and I tell clients exactly the same cuz part of what I do with the client is to go through a budget planner and I've, I've kind of rejigged that slightly. So rather than call it a budget planner, I call it a surviving thrive list. So split a sheet of air, four paper down the middle on the left hand side, write down what you need to survive. So that's your fixed costs, your bills, your your mortgage, your car insurance, house insurance, food, that kinds of stuff.

(: 14:15

And on the right hand side you do your thrive list. So do that off your bank statements. Now what you can then start to figure out is where your spending is. And the reason stalling is so great for that is exactly like you said, you can set up these amazing little sub-accounts called spaces. So we did the exercise, went through everything and we've got a space for kids haircuts, school uniform when the dog needs a groom car problems. So if there's any, every problems with the car, we've got a one called hit the fan fund cuz there's over some little expenses that just pop up. We've got kids' pocket money. Um, I was trying to save up for a set gold clubs but that's got out the window now so that's disappeared. But what I love is that we worked our expenditure out over the year so we knew that the mots were gonna come for the car.

(: 15:01

So we knew that in, I think it was March, they're gonna come through as the cars get a bit older there's probably gonna be a little bit more. So every month something goes into that space and you can name the space wherever you want, you can put a picture of of whatever you want on there as well. So yet every time you open your app you build an engagement. And I think one of the things when you talk about budget plumbing and managing your finances, a lot of people think it's really restrictive and it can feel like it if you've never done that before, as in you just go out and tap your card away willy-nilly to do whatever you like with it. But by having those spaces, it's exactly the opposite. The first, the first or the second month that had happened, we kind of got to the end of the month, looked down at the accounts and panicked cuz we thought that must have been in direct debit hasn't come out, there's something gone up that we're not aware about or went back through, looked through the statements and it was the opposite because we knew everything was covered.

(: 15:56

So what it means moving forward now is when the kids need some school shoes, when the kids need the football fees, it's all there ready to go. So you're not having those one-off expenses and it's like you just said they're married and it's so powerful having that, that functionality built into the accounts. That's why I love those accounts and talk to everyone about them. But it also kind of makes me wonder why that wasn't done much sooner with some of the traditional stuff,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 16:20

Potentially life-changing stuff. But what we know about humans as well, Ian, is we don't always love change, do we? Mm-hmm And we could feel a sense of loyalty and kind of traditional. And I have changed my bank account. So I originally was with H s BBC until it got to the stage where I thought they're not even giving me interest, I'm not having, I'm leaving. And so I moved and I went to Halifax and then originally they had a reward accountant. It was quite good and it got worse and worse and worse until it, I think they disbanded it at all. I'm not having it cross, I'm leaving and I moved and I went to Barclay's and I've been with Barclay's ever since and theirs is getting ever a slightly less good over time in terms of their rewards. But I'm still, as I'm listening to you thinking yes that does sound good, I already do all that in the background with an Excel spreadsheet. But actually it's better if it's done for me because then nothing's gonna slip through the radio. But also I'm thinking can I be bothered to change it? You know? Cause we can be quite lazy creatures of habit but that can cost us, can't it?

Ian Dempsey (: 17:19

Oh like huge. Like not just on your bank account. Like if you think about you got some electricity, your car insurance, the those fixed costs every single month. Companies make a massive amount of money from inertia by us just sitting there and not making changes and not being on top of this stuff. And the bank account's. One of the big, big things, so there's a, there's a bank account switch guarantee in place where if you switch your bank account, um, everything should be moved from one account to the other. I think it's 14 days, it used to be 28 certainly when I worked in banking and it was a little bit fraught at the start cuz the bigger diary debit missed or something and you get a late payment charge. But the bank would always compensate you for that. Now was just ultra slick. Like within, when we moved our bank account across the store, I think within, within a day we got confirmation from that.

(: 18:05

All the dira debits were set up. They transferred all of the standing orders across, they transferred even your existing pay. So people that you've made a payment to in the past all there, it was absolutely seamless. But it's one of those things where you think, oh well I get the insurance or I get cover from my phone or I get this. Great, that's good but's some good benefits, but why are they offering you those benefits? Because you're paying for them. You pay for those benefits like the money that you go into the bank and you put into your bank account and they lend out at a higher percentage or they do something else with it. It's a fractional banking system it's called now if you move that to an account that works for you, forget about the additional benefits that works for you and makes you aware of your spending, you can see on screen how much you've spent on Amazon this month. You could see that you've got money for the mot, you've got money for the kids' uniform, all that stuff that is more worth a lot more than 10 pound a month for your phone cover or whatever it is. And I, and encourage anybody to have a look at that stuff and really get your head into it cuz it's like, it's, it's a game changer and I, I don't use that word very lightly, but it is, it's phenomenal once you get a handle on that,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 19:15

I guess I was just thinking then, you know, what's the worst that could happen? I could change and if I don't like it I could move back, couldn't I? Yep,

Ian Dempsey (: 19:26

Hun. Hundred percent. You, I mean you don't necessarily even need to change lock, stock and borrow. You could just open one of these accounts. I mean what I'd encourage anybody that listens to this podcast is certainly in the UK there will be other equivalents, um, outside of the uk I think Chase over in the states do something similar is to just go into Google, um, or YouTube, sorry, and type in stalling bank account demonstration, Monzo bank account demonstration. And there's a little video that just explains how it all works and what to do. Um, you could just go and set an account up and just get a little feel for it and see how it works first before you make the switch across. And if you then decide to switch over, awesome. It's done. You can do it. You can dip your toying with stuff and if you don't like it, like you've said, close the account and go back to where you were and be stuck in your old ways.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 20:18

The good thing about my current account though is that I have got a bespoke card with a picture of me and my husband on our wedding day int it. Like that's that's a nice, that's difficult to take out my wallet, you know, .

Ian Dempsey (: 20:30

Yeah, of course it is. Absolutely. But I think, I think over time, like look, that's most places will do that now. Like I love that when the Barky stuff came out cuz there was a, there was a guy that I work with, Santa there, came in, he had a picture of his son on it and it was so cute. Like he got his card out and he loved it. Like his whole face lit up whenever he got that out his wallet. I think it was such a great idea by them.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 20:49

Lovely. So I could talk about, I could swap money all day. I think this is a great topic to be talking about, but many of our audience listening today might well be working in public, um, public sector as they might well working for the N H s. Um, and often with that there's a, there's a pension that comes as part of it. Is that gonna be enough? Should we be considering having a private pension in addition to that? Let's have a little chat about pensions. Mm-hmm.

Ian Dempsey (: 21:20

. Yeah. Hot topic especially at the moment. Especially when you look at what's recently happened with the b with the budget and the conservative government, government lifting the cap on, um, how much it can pay in a lifetime. But I suppose that's more of the top end of the kind of NHS where you've got the, the bigger consultants kind of stepping away. But if you kind of look at the, the lifeblood of the, of the kind of health service and, and the people like, like you say, sit in these bands that we talked about at the start. It's, it's a real, there's no hard and fast answer is probably the simple way to look at it because it depends on a much bigger picture. And, and one of the things that I'll always talk to clients around is the first question I'll ask is like what do they want to get out of the process?

(: 22:03

Like what, what makes the, the time that we are gonna spend together valuable? And ask yourself that same question. Like if you're about to go on the exercise of thinking right, we need to look big picture stuff like what does our retirement look like? What are the next five, 10 or 15 years the receiving the questions that you can just ask yourself to really uncover what's important to you. Now does a pension play a big part in that? And I think certainly the financial services industry over the years we've put a massive amount of pressure on people to have a pension. And I think there are very tax efficient, there are a great way to save for your future, but they aren't right for everybody. Cause you might have, um, a partner that enters a significant level of income so you might not need that level of income.

(: 22:46

You might have buy to left property. You might be further down the line and decide you wanna downsize the property to give you some equity to be able to fund that retirement. So rather than just think about a pension, what I'll encourage anybody to do is to think about ideal scenario, what does your retirement look like? And I think if you focus on the numbers it becomes really transactional. It can feel really boring as well cuz I don't like talking about the numbers and that can feel strange from a financial advisor, right? But my focus is on the important stuff. So it's gonna be about what does that retirement look like? And we'll even go so far as to think, well if you wanna retire in Spain and go and live out there, why? Where, who with, when do you want to do it? Why, why, why, why, why?

(: 23:36

And paint a picture, like almost paint the villa, paint that scenario in your head, like what's it gonna look like getting up every morning and going, having breakfast on your terrace, going down to the beach, all that stuff. And, and once you get that emotional engagement and you can really paint that picture, the numbers can almost become secondary to that and just almost fall into place because rather than sitting down with your financial advisor once a year and saying, or at Marion you need to be put in 300 pound a month in your pension every month. And you're like, well when am I gonna find that? It's okay if you want this villain thing to happen, we need to make some changes. And those changes are gonna be this, you will probably find a way to make that happen more than you need to put 300 pound a month in year pension.

(: 24:23

Ultimately the results the same. Um, and kind of going back to what you're saying, should people have private pensions as well as the NHS one? I mean I think for years the NHS has been a, an exceptional pension scheme. I still think it's an exceptional pension scheme compared to whatever else is out there. And boil started with a simple fact of can you afford to do it? Like realistically, can you afford to put more money in your pension while it's balancing out what you need right now, what you're gonna need in the next five to 10 years? Because ultimately your pension, you can't touch up until you're 55 anyway. That will be 57 before you know it, it'll be 60 much quicker by the, certainly by the time we get there, that money's away for a long, long time. Um, that's the million dollar question. It's like a set of scales, like almost three scales. It's the short, medium and the long term. And the pensions, the long term stuff, the medium is five years. The short term is like whaty and huge right now if you wash your machine blows up, it's a, it's a rebalance and act like you said, there's no hard and fast answer to it.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 25:22

Yeah, I feel like I wish I'd known you in 2000 and whenever it was, I was, um, 2006 I think it was. So I'd started, um, in a private, um, private hospital and at that point they weren't inviting new members of staff to come into the pension scheme until after three months. But um, I think initially I was on a six month fixed term contract. And so when it came up and they invited me to join, I thought, well there's probably no point because I'll be out before you know it, you know, if I can't get a new job. But they did renew my contract and actually I ended up working there for almost two years and I never got round to joining the pension scheme. And still I think that was probably quite stu stupid decision on my part. Um, because I didn't have any fixed overheads. I was living with my parents, I was earning a reasonable wage and I still think that was like wasted money for my future. Um, should we be talking these decisions through with people?

Ian Dempsey (: 26:24

A hundred percent. I like if you look at it as, as at a very simple level, like people look at the word pension pensioner think boring. That's gonna be years away before I'm going to, especially if you're in your twenties, right? And you're at the point where you think, well I'll, I'll, I'll do that later. In 17 years of experience in financial services, the, the, the, the people that retire at 55 are the ones that started it then. And you're not talking massive amounts, you're not talking huge commitments. But think about it this way, the minimum requirement for a pension now as a workplace scheme is an 8% contribution. So you put in 5%, your employee will put in 3% on top of that you'll get your tax relief. So if you get as a basic rate tax per say 20% tax relief, then you're almost doubling your money before anything else happens because you've got your employer contribution and your tax relief.

(: 27:17

So right off the bat, you put in a hundred quid, you're effectively getting nearly 200 pound into that pension. It's not quite that but it's there or thereabouts. Where, where else are you gonna get that? Where else are you gonna get that? And if you did that in your twenties or maybe even your, you've got kids and you started doing that for them cuz you can do a pension for your kids from birth. Um, if you did that for them, they're the ones that will continue paying 150 quid a month into the pension for the rest of the life and retire early or get the 65 with a whacking grey pension rather than have to get, which the vast majority of people do, get to the forties, hit the panic button and I'm doing the same, hit the panic button and think I need to start ploughing some serious money into this pension or I'm never gonna be able to retire.

(: 28:02

And I was the same as you. I just, I didn't, didn't have one. Like I worked in banking where the pension schemes were really good, wasn't, wasn't even an interest to me at the time. And then had kids young at 23, it was then right, can I put money into a pension or can I afford to um, I guess kind of pay for stuff for the kids but look back and reflect on it. There was always money for a coffee. There was probably always money for a beer with me mates. It, it's a tough one to balance cuz you've kind of, you wanna enjoy yourself, right? It's not all about money, like your life, your life shouldn't all be about money and, and focusing on this stuff and and thinking that I need x amount to be able to have a great life when I retire.

(: 28:46

And if I don't have that, I'm a failure. The vast majority of people get to the forties and then start really putting that foot down and thinking, right, I need to put in 500, 600 pound a month. That's vast majority of clients that I deal with do that because they just haven't had that foresight. So you're not alone, it's not too late if you haven't started a pension in your thirties to start one then even your forties, even your fifties. But if you can start it in your twenties, get your kids to start theirs in their twenties and, and make them more aware of it. And I think what's quite interesting now is we've got generations of people kind of coming through the system and the education system who are of the Instagram generation, they are of social media. They're seeing all this amazing content from financial cultures, financial advisors, ways to make money. And they're a lot more aware of this stuff. And I think you've got a generation of kids, certainly a lot of them coming up that are much more financially aware than we ever were. Cause it's all there. But the other side of that is that it's a lot easier for them to get money and buy things that they don't necessarily need. It's a real kind of, again, balancing it.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 29:53

I wish I'd done it sooner. I wish I'd been less embarrassed. I was embarrassed about not having enough money. I wouldn't have thought I had enough money to talk to a financial advisor when I was on band 4, 5, 6. But actually when I look back now, I didn't have a child until 2013. Um, in my early thirties I had so much disposable income before I committed to a mortgage and stuff that, that was probably my most abundant time in my life. So I went from band four, um, to band six and I went from, you know, I was only paying about 300 pounds a month at that point. I remember looking in my bank account on the day that I've got my first full month's pay of band six. And I was like, oh my god, that is so much money to me, but I didn't have kids. And so this would've been a really excellent time for me to think about starting some investments even though it felt embarrassing and a bit dirty and a bit like shame filled.

Ian Dempsey (: 30:56

Mm. It's, I get it. It's, it's completely normal because there's a, there's a real perception in the financial services industry, um, of so of the financial services industry that you need to have a lot of money to sit down and have these conversations with a financial advisor. Now, my view on it is I would have a conversation with anybody about financial advice and money doesn't necessarily mean that we're gonna become a client and work together because I'm also running a business as cost involved for doing that. But that doesn't mean that I can't help you make some of those decisions. And I think when you look at like the FinTech, um, that's out there, some of the, um, the apps to kind of get you started, Stalin's a great one to kind of manage your money. You've then got things like money box, you've then got circa 5,000.

(: 31:39

These are entry level ways to get in, whereas historically you wouldn't be able to do that. Like, that stuff didn't exist when you were probably having your kids when you had all that money. You just, they just weren't there. Like how, how would you have done it? And I think there's a perception of the, of a financial advisor to be in a grey suit driving a dragon and, and not really interested in, in you as a person unless you've got 200 grand. Part of the challenge we've got is the average age of a financial advisor in the industry is 58 and those guys are gonna be coming out of the industry in the next five, 10 years or so, which leaves a massive gap. There aren't enough people coming in at the bottom end. I think technology's got a big part to play and that to, to service some of those people that needs help.

(: 32:25

But I think a lot of, um, that experience disappears. A lot of the expertise goes and the financial advisors that are left will effectively be able to cherry pick their clients. And I think it becomes more challenging for people to get financial advice because as that market shrinks, which it is doing, then it can effectively pick who you're due with. And that price point might be nearly 200,000 pounds. So unless you've got 200 grand, you, you might not be able to have a conversation with a, with an fa Now that's just my opinion, but I know others in the industry share that as well. I think there's a, there's a, there's a big gap. There's still time to address it on how people can, can get that information and have access to it. And a lot of the time it's, it's, it can feel that information overload.

(: 33:10

Like if you, if you are not necessarily financially literate, like you, you understand how a pension works, you understand how a bank account or an investment or a savings account works, then how are you then gonna be able to take that to the next level? You'll probably spend a bit of time looking on the internet, doing some research, looking at YouTube. But how do you separate the wheat from the traf? What's the good stuff and what is absolutely nonsense because let's be honest, there's a lot of nonsense out there as well. Um, like I think we've got a big responsibility as an industry to do, to do more to help people make and make better financial decisions. And that's certainly what I wanna do.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 33:46

And you're doing it well. So I feel like I learn a lot from following you on LinkedIn. Definitely. And that's definitely what people should do, isn't it? How could they find you on LinkedIn?

Ian Dempsey (: 33:57

Just, just stick my name into LinkedIn. Ian Dempsey, I, I don't have a website. Um, that'll probably come at some point in the future. I just, well, I mean when you first get going busy, you just need to get the wheels turning first and there's so many decisions to make. The thing for me was right, LinkedIn works, I know it works. I've spent a lot of time on there. I'm gonna carry on doing what I'm doing on there. It's educational stuff. It's helping people make better financial decisions. That's where I am. LinkedIn, just put Ian Dempsey in and and this face will come off in your view. Let the see me on there and and see what I'm all about.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 34:31

And honestly I do. I I'm not even just saying it. I feel like I've learned a lot and you, you pose really thought-provoking questions and ideas that do make me stop and think and you know, the idea and even the word wealth, you know, it's safe to say the word wealth and to think about how wealthy you might want to be one day. That's okay, isn't it? It's safe.

Ian Dempsey (: 34:58

Hmm. Cause it is like you, you, I mean people can dismiss it and say like, well I could be dead in two years time. You might be, but you might live for another 60 years and, and do you really wanna be worrying about whether you can turn the heat in or cause you can't afford it? And I think wealth means it's a, it's a word that's very powerful. It's very emotive and it stirs up emotions and different people, like even the, the people that are listening to this now will have that word wealth would've instantly painted an image. It did for me as soon as you mentioned it painted an image in your head about what wealth looks like. But everybody's wealthy in lots of different ways. Like, it, it doesn't necessarily have to be financially, it's, it's about finding what's important to you and how you kind of kind of move to get, and and building some financial wealth to help you get there is so important.

(: 35:46

And I think education system's got a point to play part to play in that, which is, which is starting to happen, which is amazing. Um, it's, it's about education, helping people kind of make better decisions. I think. Exactly like you said, you've learned something from the stuff that I put out there. There's a lot of jogging out there. There's a lot of kind of smoke and mirrors for a lot of organisations. Not intentionally. I think, um, to a certain extent the regulator's got a um, a part of playing that in terms of simplifying the information that goes out there. Um, but I also understand that advisors run businesses they need to make money, they need to people to feed their family. So it's a tough one. It's a tough one to balance out.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 36:25

It is. And many of the people listening to the podcast will be working directly with people supporting their mental health. Um, and when it comes to benefits and you know, there not being enough money to go around and things being fair or not fair. Um, is Citizens Advice Bureau still a thing? Is that still somewhere we can direct people to get, you know, reputable advice, Ian?

Ian Dempsey (: 36:48

Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think they do a great job. I guess the, the, the challenges, they're a charity, so they're a voluntary organisation. Um, they offer debt counselling services. Trying to get into, to, um, to get an appointment with them might be a challenge cuz there are a lot of people struggling at the moment. But they are there to help. And what you'll find is that there's a really great structured programme that these these volunteers go through with Citizens Advice to be able to sit down in front of you and to give you, um, the help and support from money. And, and what happens in the vast majority of occasions is these guys are maybe at the tail end of their career or they've worked with in those particular sectors. They've got an incredible amount of knowledge that can give you help and support. So reach out to these people. There's another one which is, um, Christians Against Poverty. It's a same similar thing to Citizens Advice. You don't necessarily have to have Christian beliefs to be able to reach out for support, but they can certainly, um, help guide you in the right direction. Um, there, there's loads and loads of information out there as well. Bri,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 37:50

British Gas and some of the banking organisations as well had, I think started saying recently, you don't need to be one of our customers to call us and talk about, you know, not having enough money or fuel poverty and stuff like that. Is that anything you know about?

Ian Dempsey (: 38:05

Yeah, absolutely. They do. Like I think there's, there's, they're starting to kind of take stock of where their responsibility lies and, and how to help support people through difficult times. Cuz let's be honest, in this country, we're, we're all in it together. Like we've all felt the pinch and felt the squeeze over the last couple of years and things have got more expensive. The, the shopping is cost a lot more. The supermarket chills are empty sometimes when you go in there. That didn't happen 10 years ago, it didn't happen five years ago. But tho those banks can help and, and it's go back, like one of the first things we, we talked about Maryanne, which was burying your head in the sand. Go and have those conversations with people is difficult as those conversations might feel for you. The people that you sit in front of will have heard that a hundred times before.

(: 38:50

Like there wasn't anything within banking when I certainly work there that shocked me in terms of financials because I'll, I've heard it all before and if you've heard it all before, there'll be a route to help. Like, again, don't bury your head in the sun. If you need help, support, there's help and support out there. Citizen advice of great, your bankers, great Christians Against Poverty are great. There are other charities out there that can help as well. And I think the conversation around money needs to be a lot more fluid than it needs to be. Talk to your family, talk to your friends. It, it's not rude having these conversations. Like you're not, you're not having conversations about how much do you earn and, and what do you spend your money on. It's like, look John, I'm in a little bit of debt. I dunno what to do. Is there anything that you would suggest then have those conversations. Like any of your friends that are your close friends, would, would be happy to help you. That's not necessarily lending your money to dig you out of a hole. That is, well do you know what John? I've been there and done it. I've never talked to anybody else about it, but this is what I've done in the past. But that conversation needs to be a lot more open than it currently is.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 39:53

Priceless information there. Ian, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us about this really important stuff. Um, people, as I said, should definitely be following you, um, on LinkedIn, um, because I think your advice is golden.

Ian Dempsey (: 40:10

Thank you very much. I've enjoyed it. I've loved coming on.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 40:13

Good. Lovely. Well, um, it's been an absolute pleasure. Um, and I'll look forward to yeah, connecting with you more on LinkedIn in future.

Ian Dempsey (: 40:22

Awesome. See you soon. Thank you.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 40:24

Wow. What wonderful advice. And I have to say that since recording this episode with Ian, I did try to move my, um, business banking account to Starling, but they've turned me down. Ian , they've turned me down. They said no. Um, so yeah, I will consider my options, but I believe it is easier to get approved for Starling Personal Bank. So I might well try that. It's never too early to start thinking about financial planning and it's, you know, there's no greater time than now. So hope you found it's really useful and thought provoking. I would love any thoughts you've got about this episode, come and join me on the Aspiring Psychologist Community Free Facebook group. And if you've got any ideas for future episodes of the podcast, please do get in contact and let me know If you'd like to leave me an audio testimonial for the podcast or the book or the membership, um, please check out www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/podcast. Thank you so much for being part of my world. I will look forward to delivering the next episode of this podcast to you from 6:00 AM on Monday. Take care.

Jingle Guy (: 41:37

If you're looking to become a, the.