Green Prescribing and Nature benefits for Mental Health – with Dan Loveard

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:28

Welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I am Dr. Maryanne Trent, and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. We can be pretty good in the mental health industry at trying to polish up the dull side of a penny and finding advantages. And certainly one of the advantages I found about the lockdowns was how much more immersed in nature I was able to be. So it gave me time to slow everything down and I was going out for more walks and I even started running. So being able to see you know, spring emerging and, you know, making way for summer, making way for Autumn and then winter as well, and seeing the change in the seasons for me felt like a really nice opportunity. And people during lockdown found new ways to welcome kind of nature and wildlife into their daily lives and into their wellbeing too, and into their schedules too.

(: 01:30

I made contact with somebody who is a, a nature wildlife specialist because I thought it'd be really nice for us to learn a bit about the benefits of being out and about in the outdoors, but also thinking about the benefits we can highlight to our clients through something called green prescribing. We are all human and my guest contacted me after we'd recorded this to say that he had accidentally got Spring Watch and Autumn Watch muddled up. So it isn't Spring Watch that's going to be potentially discontinued. It's Autumn Watch. So when you get to that bit if you are watching on YouTube, it will pop up on the screen to explain the mix up. But if you get to that bit and you are listening on a podcast, then yeah, we mean the other way around. So it's not Spring Watch that's potentially stopping it is Autumn Watch.

(: 02:27

I hope that clears up any confusion. I have also been notified that you can actually do reviews and ratings on Spotify. So I know most of you do listen on Spotify. That is our most popular streaming platform. So if you indeed are listening on Spotify, please do take a moment to rate and review the show. I don't use Spotify. I haven't got Spotify, so I don't know how to talk you through that process. But if you do use Spotify, do have a little look and let me know. Maybe send me some screenshots of how you do it so I can explain it to other people. That would be so wonderful. So I hope you find today's episode really useful. Yeah, it's a little bit different today, but I think it's really useful to give you a breadth of things are useful to you as an aspiring psychologist and a mental health professional. Don't find it useful. I'll catch up with you on the other side. So welcome to my guest today, Dan Loveard. Hi.

Dan Loveard (: 03:31

Hi Marianne, how are you?

Dr Marianne Trent (: 03:33

I'm really well, thank you. Thanks for asking. How are you?

Dan Loveard (: 03:35

Yes, I'm good, thank you.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 03:38

So I am on your mailing list for where you work, which is how I heard about you and your work. And I was intrigued to learn a little bit more and to help our audience learn a little bit more about wildlife and being out in nature and how that can be really beneficial for our mental health if we are working in mental health and also for our clients that we work with as well.

Dan Loveard (: 04:04

Yeah, so I'm happy to talk more about what we offer at Warwickshire Wildlife Trust. So we have a we have a health and wellbeing team and they deliver a variety of different opportunities for people to be inspired and engage in nature activities. So we run wellbeing courses which are in line with the five ways to wellbeing, which you might be aware of. They're the nationally recognised approaches if you like. The NHS came up with and we've put that in a nature context which has worked really well and we've received so much positive feedback and stories from them being a part of those courses. So yeah, I, I, I can delve into a little bit more about those courses. So like I said, they're in line with the five ways and those five ways are connect take notice give back, get active and learn something new.

(: 05:11

So putting that into a nature context, you know, there's activities that we can run in line with those approaches. So macro photography, volunteering, so things like tree planting, for example. Going for a long walk and running some mindfulness activities which have all been really impactful ways for people to connect with nature and with the people around them as well. And then other things that we run within the health and wellbeing team are bushcraft activities. So a bit more hands-on practical highlighting activities. So sort of bring out sort of like you're in a kid in a way when you might go into the woods and do a a variety of different things. And and then also we run volunteering activities which we do as an organ. We, we offer those across the board actually in our organisation.

(: 06:13

So we have 65 nature reserves and within those volunteers that we have about 700, they're the lifeblood of our organisation for us to be managing those sites to support wildlife. So we run volunteering activities for people that experience poor ill health that may have been signed, posted by their gps along with other social prescribers as well. And then they can get out onto our nature reserves with one of our project offices and yeah, get stuck in and use nature in a sort of green prescribing way, if you like.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 07:02

Brilliant. And that's really powerful and I think it's, like you said, it's the mindfulness aspect of it mm-hmm , but also it sound, people can feel a bit apprehensive about doing things that are new, but it sounds like that doesn't need to be the case when you are, when you're going to these wildlife centres cuz there will be people who are really thrilled to talk to you and guide you through what you might be looking at or what you might like to look for.

Dan Loveard (: 07:26

Yes, definitely. So we do completely recognise that there are some barriers with people accessing nature whether that be fear of safety and being out on their own in a woodland for example can be daunting for some people. And maybe they don't feel that nature's for them and it's not relevant to their lives. But as an organisation we're really keen to instil a level of nature into people's lives cause we know how important and powerful it's to nurture people's mental health. So yeah, we are as welcoming as we can be and we do go out into the community quite a lot through our outreach work to inspire and connect the more disengaged audiences in society within Warwickshire, Coventry and Soli Hall.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 08:20

Yeah, and it, you know what, I'm, I've been to your to your centre with my, specifically with my young children when they're a little bit younger. And what I would like is you've got a cafe there as well and there's a TV where at the time you could see like, I think it was Kestrels on the roof of a local building with their little, their little chicks. Was it Kestrels? I'm not sure.

Dan Loveard (: 08:39

So their paras, so

Dr Marianne Trent (: 08:41

They're

Dan Loveard (: 08:41

Falcons, they're the same family of birds prey. But yeah, they're we have a webcam which is in it's a partnership project with Warwick District Council and yeah, we a successful pair of nesting peregrines in the town hall in Leamington. So we also have access to the webcam feed and yes we play that along with some of the smaller bird box birds, like blue tits and great tits and things that we have on our reserves. And that's such a intimate way to connect with nature, isn't it, seeing the whole breeding cycle of them raising their chicks to them fledging. It's yeah, really fantastic, isn't it?

Dr Marianne Trent (: 09:24

It really was and it was fascinating stuff. And to sit there with my little boy and have our lunch and watch these baby chicks eating their lunch, like it was really, really nice. So that, yeah, and I guess if, and I think you also had bird tables set up outside the windows to the cafe as well, so even if you're not feeling like confident or if you're not that good kind of mobility wise about getting out and about, there's ways for you to engage with nature and see stuff that you might not see in your own house or from your own balcony by going to these centres that might just really kind of lift your soul. So I really liked that about the centre actually.

Dan Loveard (: 10:01

Yeah, it's a very inviting space. And we're trying to make it as inclusive as possible within our means. And yeah, like you said, the cafe is a great space for people that may not be as mobile, but we do have some mobility scooters but not loads. So, you know, some people will have to sometimes wait so that we can get that level of access onto the nature reserve at Brandon Marsh, which is our headquarters. But yes if they just want a cup of tea and to look out the window, we always have the bird feeders full and yeah, it attracts so much wildlife, not just the birds actually that we've had monk jack deer, foxes yeah, a real mix of wildlife.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 10:45

I love that. My little boy told me that I had to ask you, he's six and a half, I had to ask you about certain wildlife, whether you have it or you don't have it. And I was like, hmm, I think some of these, he definitely won't have a flamingo.

Dan Loveard (: 11:00

Okay. So that's a definite no, but it would be great. Okay.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 11:03

But it's no, yeah, he asked about foxes and you've said yes to foxes. Yeah, that badges.

Dan Loveard (: 11:09

Badges and yes. Most likely we do. I'm not aware of any badges sets, so that's the network of underground tunnels where they live. I'm not aware of any that are active, but I wouldn't be surprised if badges use Onh Reserve even if they don't live there, if that makes sense.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 11:27

Okay. And I know moles are not always people with friends, especially like farmers. Do you have moles? Do you like them if you do?

Dan Loveard (: 11:37

Well, I love all wildlife. Oh, okay. And I know that's a bias thing to say. I know people aren't like a fan of certain things cuz you know, creepy crawlies and all of that. But I, I like to try and break that stigma because if you know if we can change, I suppose the narrative on certain wildlife being scary or maybe a bit gross I think that can especially with the younger generation I think that will be a good way to, I suppose break down that barrier of nature not always being for me I suppose as well. But in ask you a question about the moles, I like moles. They have a part of what will what I mean is that they're a part of our ecosystem. They have their place in terms of them being on a nature reserve. I, I think they would be, but I don't see any mole hills on our reserves that often. So again, I dunno if they use it that much, but I mean they use them in my garden a lot . Cause there's loads of mole hills.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 12:46

Thank you. Thank you for entertaining my six and a half year old. He'll be delighted to know those answers. And yeah, as you were talking, I was thinking, well, when I grew up I was outside so much, I constantly have my hands in the dirt or with playing with insects, I dunno if you're supposed to play with them. You know, putting them in jars and having a look at them and then putting them back of course. And like, you know, slugs, I still don't like slugs very much. They are quite ugly creatures, but, you know, moving snails and looking at caterpillars and, you know, butterflies and I just, I don't think our young people are getting out as often as that and certainly not getting their hands muddy. They're more disgusted by by that I think in my experience certainly of parenting. How's that playing out for you as you try and educate young people about the benefits of being outside?

Dan Loveard (: 13:36

Well, particularly with the younger generation like you were saying I think I can definitely see, and at the trust we can see that there is this I suppose culture if you like. And mindset about being outdoors in the bud in the mud is like a bad thing. And our education team are fantastic at I suppose breaking that stigma a little bit. And that mindset by working with schools and families to really get stuck in that. We have a mud kitchen at Brandon Marsh like a little education area. And also we have a dem building woods which is a great way for the younger generation in particular, but I'm very happy to do it myself is things like dem building. So that's a great way of nature play, isn't it? Just going outdoors and being creative out in nature, which I think is a really important thing.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 14:50

Sounds like you've got absolutely great job Dan .

Dan Loveard (: 14:53

I'm just No, I was just say, I was just saying that I do love my job. Yes. I, I've done elements of all of the things that I've mentioned to you. You know, I have done some work with families before. I've delivered some of the wellbeing projects as well doing the courses and the volunteering. Yeah, so my, my role and my conservation career so far has been very diverse, which I really love.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 15:21

Brilliant. It shines out of you. It's lovely to see. And I know before you were an action for nature officer, you were doing the kind of health and wellbeing role. So there might potentially be scope for people that are interested in nature to still do things that is, you know, kind of clinically relevant as well. Potentially you're still using outcome measures for some of your interventions. You're kind of rubbing up alongside people who are doing, you know, patch PhDs or research and it's a good chance to work with, you know, a wide variety of people.

Dan Loveard (: 15:52

Yeah, def definitely. So we welcome people that are in research posts to approach us with their project idea for gaining their research. And also to shadow us as well to get a greater perspective of what we do as an organisation. We've worked with a variety of different PhD students in the past. So you know, we, we do welcome that interest and we might not be always able to facilitate and support them, but it's worth reaching out just in case. So in terms of the current work that we're offering in the health and wellbeing team, so we're still running those five ways wellbeing courses at different areas in the county. And we are running volunteering opportunities and wellbeing walks as well through our project called The Environment in Me, which is shortened to team, which I think is really nice.

(: 17:12

Really sort of yes, it's, it's a great project that's started in Coventry and now they've expanded across Warwickshire as well where they're delivering a variety of different opportunities in different areas for people that are experiencing mental ill health. But you don't have to be diagnosed with depression or anxiety, for example, to access those opportunities. Some people do feel like, oh, they need to have that label if you like, or diagnosis when that isn't the we welcome and are open to a variety of different people from all sorts of backgrounds coming to those opportunities where some opportunities may be more suitable than others. And if you just typed in on Google Works Wildlife Trust health and wellbeing, there will be the current opportunities that we have that may be relevant and that you can come to.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 18:24

Brilliant. So would volunteering roles be up there as well or is that a case of contacting your local wildlife trust to explore what might be an option?

Dan Loveard (: 18:35

So with the volunteering at Shire Wildlife Trust again, you can easily find that on our website. So if you just type in watch Wildlife Trust volunteering onto Google, there'll be a page which outlines the process you need to go through to be enrolled as a volunteer and then maybe have a taste session with the relevant reserves officer that is covering that area. So we have a north, south and West Reserves officer. So it just depends on maybe the geography of where that person is. So if they're Leamington based and they want to really be around the area, then our volunteer coordinator, Wendy, can align your interests and availability with the right opportunities basically. So it just makes it an easy process.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 19:26

Brilliant.

Dan Loveard (: 19:27

And one thing then I wanted to touch on, because I know you did mention it before but I haven't mentioned it yet, is the sort of interventions and the measuring of the work that we do. So with some of our projects within the health and wellbeing team in particular, we do track people's state of wellbeing and mood through the Warwick Edinburgh Mental Wellbeing Scale. So that's a a great way to measure the impact that our opportunities have on people's lives. So I think a really important aspect is the anecdotal evidence. So the stories that you capture just out on the reserve when you're walking with that person and just saying how this has been a lifeline for them because I was running those opportunities that I referenced before in Covid. So it was a tricky time for people with social isolation and loneliness and those opportunities were a great gateway for them to access nature and support their mental health and meet new people as well.

(: 20:32

And I know some people that have actually started leading walks with the people that were on the same course, on the same nature reserve that I was running those sessions. So I think that's just such a positive outcome to our but yes alongside that I was tracking people's stated wellbeing from the start and then there was a midpoint questionnaire that we, we put in and it gave to the people and then there was an end one. So we would be able to track things like their mood and general sort of thoughts and feelings as well.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 21:12

That's great. It's always good to have the evidence that what you do works, isn't it?

Dan Loveard (: 21:17

Yeah. And, and, and it's a great way to highlight the importance to organisations and government bodies like the NHS for example, where we're trying and we are working with them on a local level to create this green prescribing approach. There is this, there is a big thing around social prescribing, which really does have its place and it's so important and we are integrated within that system where we've built up contacts with certain social prescribers that are attached to GP’s. So they will refer some of their clients where appropriate to our services. But also we do feel like there's a need to actually have the green prescribing approach cause we just know how so important the and being outdoors in nature isn't, is like you know, is for people's mental health. So yeah, that's a slow process but we are really keen on it being something that's integrated within the health system.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 22:28

Yeah, brilliant. And you touched on Lockdowns there and I know for some people that's a time where they really started to get more into their gardening or, you know, observing what was going out of outside the window. Have you seen many, you know, more of an uptake since lockdown or people being more interested in the outside world?

Dan Loveard (: 22:49

Yeah, definitely. So I think particularly when I was running the wellbeing courses and the volunteering, there was a lot of interest because I think Covid allowed people for a variety of reasons to slow down and made me reassess their, their lifestyle and how they led their lives. So I think a lot of people have engaged with nature more positively and have maintained that as well. Whereas I know some people probably wouldn't have done so it was maybe they'll put in that situation well, you know, you can't do anything else apart from going for a walk for an hour outside your house. Which I still think was obviously really important for them at the time, but life takes over and maybe they weren't able to maintain that once things relax a little bit. But I do know a lot of people and also, you know, that's sort of through my work where I've been able to have these discussions where they've spoken about how it's just changed their lives and for the, you know, for the foreseeable and for the better.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 24:01

Yeah. And do you think the Spring Watch and Autumn Watch shows with Chris Packham and Mikayla Stren, does that help people understand more and are you getting people coming and saying, oh, I saw this or No, you know, I really wanted to see it like up close or close to me?

Dan Loveard (: 24:18

Yeah, definitely. I think those documentaries and those shows they have a real place on mainstream TV and I really hope they don't go. Cause I heard recently about Autumn Watch being taken down, which is really upsetting, , oh, we've got one more Autumn Watch and then they may not bring it back. Which was a real shame because those No,

Dr Marianne Trent (: 24:42

That's a shame they hadn't heard that.

Dan Loveard (: 24:44

Yeah, like I think it is set, I think it was mainly a, a budget decision from the BBC, but I dunno, the whole ins and outs I don't wanna be controversial on here but essentially those shows are, they provide so much inspiration for people and I think with spring Watch, auto Watch and Winter Watch, there're really good at changing that narrative, particularly at the end for people to take action as well for nature because you know I'm sure a lot of us know that there is an environmental crisis and ec and an ecological crisis. And what we want to do with how we work with communities as an organisation is encouraging people to take action for wildlife on a local level. So whether that be doing some more wildlife friendly gardening or changing the way you commute to work or, or, or you know, a variety of different things that are fitting and tailored to their lives and, you know, suitable for them. So yeah, those shows are a great way in align with the sort of how we want to engage with communities, which is taking action as well. So it's providing that inspiration but then also leading to a cultural action as well.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 26:12

It's also really useful to think about how the message about what you do and you know, what we, what you know, populates out you know, to wider organisations as well. So I know especially in Coventry which is where I'm from, some of the roundabouts in Coventry have been put down to wild flower planting rather than constantly mowing them. So what saves the, it probably saves them money. That's probably what their main main goal is, but it's so lovely to see and it must better for the wildlife, surely.

Dan Loveard (: 26:46

Oh, it is. Yeah. So I think they started doing that when the city of Culture came to commentary. So the council may have had some funding to start that process. But I think it, it's something that should be changed for the, for sort of the, or should be integrated into their management for the long term. Because it's so inviting to have that burst of colour when you arrive into commentary. It's great for pollinators and like you said, on a financial perspective they don't have to know it as much. So I think it's a win-win situation really.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 27:34

Absolutely. And how are the bees, have you, have you got bees on Brandon?

Dan Loveard (: 27:40

Yeah, so we, we have a lot of wildflowers on our nature reserve or nature reserves. Like all of our reserves do have you know, a variety of different wildflowers which support pollinators not just bees moths, butterflies, wasps amongst others. So yeah, we definitely try to manage our reserves to be as sympathetic as possible to a diversity of wildlife, not just for a specific species. We feel on the whole, because there is such a nature decline on, you know, across the board really that our approach should be to then manage our reserves in a way which is best for as much wildlife as possible.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 28:38

Yeah, thank you. Absolutely agree. How did you get into wildlife and, you know, start to think about making it your career, Dan?

Dan Loveard (: 28:49

So it sounds a bit cliche, but I you know, from a young age I've always loved nature and being outdoors. And my dad bought my first pair of binoculars cause I'm really into bird watching and you know, I remember going out to a country park and making bird boxes and back boxes and taking them back home. I think that just sort of sparked an interest from a very young age throughout my life until where I am now. Whereas sometimes there's always a bit of a gap in it sort of falls, you know, once you're in your teens and then you may get it back. But for me, I've, I've always sort of been interested in nature in the outdoors. So I studied a conservation degree at Banging University and loved it there.

(: 29:47

I dunno if you've been to that area of North Wales, but it's just the perfect spot for doing a conservation degree. And then yeah, from that point I did some sort of short-term seasonal contracts as like a graduate level in a very unusual role. So I was actually protecting rare seabirds on beaches in North Wales, Suffolk and Norfolk Random, but a really important job cuz they were threatened for a variety of different reasons. And then I broadened out my my sort of way of working in the conservation sector. So one part of the role that I really enjoyed when I was doing the seabird stuff was engaging in the, with the public. So I thought community engagement role would be really fitting for me. So then I went to War Schwaba Trust and got a maternity cover and they haven't been able to get rid of me since. So

Dr Marianne Trent (: 30:54

You're not going anywhere. I love that.

Dan Loveard (: 30:56

No, no, you .

Dr Marianne Trent (: 30:58

If you could offer our listeners kind of three top tips either for themselves or for the clients they're supporting about ways to include wildlife more in their day-to-day lives, what might they be?

Dan Loveard (: 31:11

Oh, good question. Put

Dr Marianne Trent (: 31:12

You on the, put you on the

Dan Loveard (: 31:13

Spot. Yeah, yeah, you have, but I'll try my best to answer. So I think one thing would be to go for a walk somewhere and consciously make an effort to appreciate that your surroundings. So have like a mindful walk. I think a lot of us just go from A to B and you know, with our busy lives and you know, I, you know, we're all thinking, you know, I need to put this on my shopping list so I need to do this later. When actually if we slow down and just connect with nature on a deeper level, I think that would be a really good way. With practice, you know, it's not just something you can do at click of a finger because I think we, we do have busy minds and it's not an easy process sometimes for people, but with practice I think you can do a mindful walk and it be a part of your daily life and it doesn't have to be a long one.

(: 32:19

So I would say that as my first one. Another one would be to learn something new about wildlife that you are maybe particularly keen about and, you know and finding out more about, so if it was birds for example maybe downloading an app on your phone to find out more about the bird song that you are listening to and you dunno what it is. So discovering a little bit more about what's around you as well. And then you can share that with a family member or a friend. And you're passing on that knowledge, which I think is a really positive thing as well, can lift people's mood. And then another one I think would be to maybe go onto our website of our actual Wildlife Trust . I'm not gonna try and plug too much, but we have a, a new way of working with communities like I sort of mentioned earlier which is Team Wilder and we're wanting more people to take action for wildlife like I was mentioning.

(: 33:46

So you know, if you go onto that part of our website, so team Wilder watch Wildlife Trust to just type that into Google and you'll find out more about what we are doing as an organisation and we have a map which people have been from and the public have been plotting their actions for wildlife. So you can maybe get some inspiration about what people are doing and maybe nearby where you live. So it'd be interesting to see if you live in commentary for example, there may be some people that are potted something in from what they've done in their gardens. So some positive actions that may inspire you to also do the same. Or if you are already doing something that'd be fantastic to hear from you about what you are doing and then you can contribute and then we can capture that and you know, those actions and those stories which is a yeah, a, a great way for us to know what people are doing and

Dr Marianne Trent (: 34:47

For nature, it really, it really is. Thank you for your tips though. I know I put you on the spot there, but you did very well. People are listening probably nationally and sometimes even internationally. We've so far, I realise yesterday covered, so like 38% of the world have listened to an episode of the podcast, which is pretty incredible. Wow. Is there, is Team Wilder? Yeah, it's alright, isn't it Team? Is Team Wilder a just a localised approach or does it, does it go more broadly outside in the uk do you know?

Dan Loveard (: 35:17

So it goes across the UK actually. So I don't if the listeners are aware of the Wildlife Trusts and how they work, but it's actually a network of individual wildlife trusts. So there's a War Wildlife Trust, there's an Essex Wildlife Trust, Norfolk Wildlife, wildlife Trust, et cetera, et cetera. So primarily county-based and we work together as a movement as well. So we are separate entities and we do have our own aims and aspirations, but they are very similar to other wildlife trusts. But we as a collective, we have a lot more power to create the changes that we want to for nature and people. So the Team Wilder approach is a part of that collective. So if there was someone that was listening in Essex for example, there are teams in that organisation that are at the moment you know taking this approach to team Water and having more people take action for wildlife. Yes, so in answer your question yes, so people can find out more in their local area as well.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 36:39

Brilliant, thank you. Thank you so much for your passion for wildlife and helping us learn a bit more about why it's useful and how it can be really part of somebody's day-to-day life, which might well impact on their wellbeing in a really positive way.

Dan Loveard (: 36:55

Mm-Hmm. No, you're welcome. Yeah I'm I'm really glad you did reach out to us because we are really wanting more people to be inspired and, and connect to nature and as I keep saying this, take action, but I think it's just so important that we are doing our own bit for and the environment cuz those small actions come out to a, a large and positive and significant impact.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 37:28

Great. I will obviously make sure I put all of your wildlife trust website address details in the show notes so people can absolutely access that speedily if they want to. But thank you so much for your time today, Dan.

Dan Loveard (: 37:40

You're welcome. Thank you very much.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 37:42

Thank you so much to our guest, Dan Lahar really lovely speaking with him and really thoughtful guy that's got you know, a really nice outlook on the world. So I hope you found that really useful and that you will find it useful for thinking about how you can interact with nature and wildlife and how you can also help showcase and highlight the benefits of that to your clients too. I'd love any feedback you might have on this episode or any others. Do come and join us in the Aspiring Psychologist Community Free Facebook Group. If I don't see you there, I will be along in your ears from 6:00 AM on Monday for our next podcast episode. Thank you so much. Take care and thank you for being part of my world.