From Therapy to Best Selling Author: Dr Martha Deiros Collado’s Psychology Journey

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:00

Behind every bestselling psychology book is a story and a person. Today we are hearing from Dr. Marta Deros Kado from her journey into clinical psychology, to her passion for supporting families, Marta has built a career that bridges therapy, parenting, and public psychology. In this very special episode, part of the 200 episode celebrations for the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, we'll explore what drew her into the field, what keeps her inspired, and the lessons aspiring psychologists can take from her path. Hope you find it really useful. If you do, please and subscribe for more. I just want to welcome back to the podcast, Dr. Masa. Welcome back. Thank you so much for being here.

Dr Martha Deiros Collado (: 00:41

Hi. Thanks for having me again.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:43

Well, you are so welcome. And I wanted to really, I guess as part of our 200 episode celebration of the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast, think a little bit about you because I think sometimes when you've got a big social following, you have on your Instagram account, people are like, oh, I'd like to be a psychologist. Or they're like, how did Dr. Marta get to be this psychologist that I see before me? Could you tell us a little bit about your career?

Dr Martha Deiros Collado (: 01:14

Yeah, I, I mean I fell into psychology because my English teacher kind of suggested I should look into it, which I think is interesting. I dunno if anyone else has gone through that process, but around 16, when you're starting to think about what am I going to do with my future, we used to have careers advisors or whatever they were called at my school, and I've talked about this with other of my friends. We've had such different experiences. But it was really interesting because I always wanted to work in medicine. I wanted to be a medical doctor. That was my calling. I felt, and then when I understood what it meant, which included surgery, I didn't want anything to do with it. So I'm not into cutting things off. That was like, no, I don't think I can do it. I don't think I'm cut for that.

(: 02:07

Pun intended, not for me. So then I was kind of stuck. I was really into science. I loved English, but I was really into biology and chemistry. They were my thing. So I didn't really know what to do with myself. I think I felt quite lost and my English teacher said to me, you think and speak like a psychologist. And we didn't have psychology at my school. It wasn't, wasn't part of our curriculum. And I was like, I don't even know what they are. They're a bit weird. I remember having a weird idea of, especially in my school, a shrink. Oh God, I don't want to be one of those. That sounds awful. And he was wonderful. Had the power of teachers. I think definitely for me, something that influenced me, he then recommended I did some reading, so I did. I was then really interested when I realised that the core of psychology was that it was a science and I had no idea about it and that there was loads of areas really broad and so I was really interested in things like forensics and addiction and definitely health.

(: 03:11

But I had suddenly I was like, oh, I'm really interested in all these things, the brain. I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, this sounds great behaviour. So I went to university. I picked a psychology course and I also kind of had very good, which I think is helpful for young people. I had very good adults around me in my life who were very good at listening to me, very good at being curious with me. And basically the message I gathered was, do something you think you might enjoy and if you don't, don't worry about it. You can do something else. Honestly, I went to university thinking, okay, this is like a, because otherwise I was going to do biochemistry, I was going to go pure science and I decided I'll try it because if I hate it, I can still go off and do pure science.

(: 04:00

I will have some skills, et cetera, which I think was a really good message to give a young person, this isn't like your final decision. Went to uni. I loved it. I never looked back. I really thought I would end up in forensics. I loved it. And I actually really liked the idea of working in a prison. Sounds really weird, but it's true. But health won me over. I mean, my mom always says, how did you not know that you wanted me a medical doctor? I'm like, I don't know. I think I forgot. I think I forgot when I was in psychology that, so I ended up doing a master's in health sciences, which I absolutely loved, like health psychology. And then I became an assistant psychologist in paediatrics, which I only did about six months on because I got on the course. But I mean that was it.

(: 04:53

I remember in that paediatric post being like, no, this is it. This is my calling. And at the time I was working in neurology, obviously under the supervision of clinical psychologist. I was just an assistant working with children with epilepsy and children had brain injuries and they also had brain surgeries. It was fascinating, I loved it. So I went into doctoral training with my mind absolutely focused on paediatrics. But it was really interesting because genuinely every single placement I went on in training I loved and I was so shocked. So I did psychodynamic for a year in my first year, which I think is rare, very rare. And I remember being angry because all my, everybody else on my course apart from three of us, and they're two of my best friends. How interesting is that still now everybody else went on a CBT placement, but I did not.

(: 05:53

And I remember feeling rejected. You know how you like, oh, I'm not a good fit, why would that me? Anyway, it was meant to be a six month placement and then they kept the three of us for a full year, which they'd never done before. Again, I think that's quite telling because the three of us loved it. And I think the three of us now work, we all work with children. That was an adult placement, but we've all kept something. I believe it. I think that year changed us the most or changed me the most for sure. I learned skills and therapy that I don't think I would've learned anywhere else if I hadn't done psychodynamic therapy the way that I did. I loved it. I remember thinking, this is it. This is what I'm going to do for life. And then obviously I had my child placement, it was very C-B-T-C-B-T is not my calling.

(: 06:44

And it was so interesting to be like, oh yeah, this is not for me. But I loved it. I loved the kids, I love the families. And then anyway, roll onto my third year. I asked for a paediatric placement and I did. I had to be interviewed for it. It was at UCLH and there was loads of people from different courses being interviewed for it. And somehow God knows why they chose me and I'm so grateful for it because it was the best year of my life. I still think that those psychologists were so inspiring. I think that first year and that third year really cushioned something in who I am as a clinical psychologist, my values, what I focus on, what I reflect on, what I think about. I'm still very much inspired by the psychologists I work with. I think they're amazing. But that I felt it was transformative for me and it very much became like, this is it.

(: 07:45

I knew this was what I wanted to do and suddenly I had this insight into family therapy. So family therapy was, I dunno if they still do, fingers crossed, they still do long. I trained a long time ago, but they used to embed family therapy in the ward. It was beautiful. And so I trained in family therapy afterwards because that's what I wanted to be. It felt like, and interestingly, there's a lot for me, there's some psychodynamic ideas, like there's lots of blending, there's lots of blending and lots of models. But for me, the psychodynamic in the family therapy kind of became me. They shaped me. They shaped how I think about mental health. They shaped how I think about problems and problem behaviours and how I think about my interaction in therapy with families and children. They shaped how I think about my interactions with people around me as well.

(: 08:42

So I think that really shaped me. But ultimately over time, without a doubt, it's the kids and the families that I've worked with that have shaped me the most. I have worked in so many, all my paediatric services have been chronic health, life limiting, life shortening conditions. It's what I have a calling for I think. And I think if I ever go back into the NHS, that's where I'm going. There's no doubt. But I think it's the kids and the families that have taught me the most. I think training was so invaluable in terms of the knowledge and the practise and the skill, and I think I miss it. I miss having live supervision, which is what I had in my third year because of family therapy. But I miss having that kind of very deep, very thoughtful supervision about every single case. When you qualify and you suddenly have 50 cases, 80 cases and you're like, oh my god, I can't talk about all of them.

(: 09:41

It's so different. The working NHS life is so different from the very nurturing, for me anyway, my personal experience, experience of training. And I missed that. I definitely missed that. I also missed being able to give enough emotional thoughtful times. So I think saying this kind of also doesn't surprise me reflecting on it as I'm talking, that I've ended up leaving the NHS, but after a long time I worked full time for, I mean post qualification. I worked full time for 12 years before I left. So it's a long time. But when I chose to leave, the one thing that I now have held onto is the knowledge, the skills. I think working in the NHS is so invaluable for, it's a word that one of my colleagues used all the time, but she was right. Consolidating your skills and really making you aware of safeguarding and risk and issues that sometimes I think you might be blind to if you don't work in that environment.

(: 10:49

And I am so grateful for that because I feel like I can hold onto that knowledge and hold onto those skills. But I can also now do the thing I loved during training, which is offer my thought emotional space in a much more nurturing way to the families. I do hold because I don't hold 50 cases. I'm very careful about how many families I feel able to hold and when I hold them, I hold them well. And I think what's allowed me to do that is having a supervisor who used to supervise me in the NHS. So I think when you work for so long, you build obviously relationships you can hold. I've held onto them and that grounds me. And I think, yeah, just consolidating the skills and the knowledge from training into practise and then being like I'm on my own but I don't feel on my own. I feel like all those years I carry them a bit like a backpack. They're with me all the time. And I think with my supervisor, we've worked together in the NHS, my private supervisor, it really helps because we often reflect on things that we've experienced together or we've experienced in that setting. So yeah, so that's how I've landed here. I dunno what else to say.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 12:04

I guess I just wanted to react to what you'd said. It really is a privilege, isn't it? When you get to do this work with whatever client group it is that lights you up. I dunno, it's difficult to describe. My kids this morning said to me, oh, you're going off to boring old work. And I went, I'm going to work, but it's not boring. I love it. And I want them to know that actually when I'm in my office, when I'm working, I'm not at the grindstone really enjoying that. And that is possible from your work. You don't just have to live to earn your money

Dr Martha Deiros Collado (: 12:39

A hundred percent. And when I left the NHS and people ask me all the time, what would you do if you didn't do this? And I was like, I don't think I would do anything else. I love my work and I know that's not true for every psychologist, but I love the variety. I love that there's never a dull moment. I love hearing people's stories. I love stories. I mean English teacher full circle. But it's true. I love stories and I love being witness to people's stories. I think that's an honour and a privilege. People's stories sometimes shape how I think about my own stories or how I think about somebody else's stories. I feel like they all end up interconnected interweaved somewhere. I think it is such an honour to sit in a room with someone and talk about things that maybe they've never shared with anybody else.

(: 13:28

I think I wouldn't do what I do if I didn't love it because it's hard. It can also be incredibly emotionally draining. It can take up a lot of your thinking time, a lot of your emotional capacity, especially if you're a parent and you've got children. And I think that's why I also feel very privileged that I can do this privately now and I can, like I said, set really healthy limits for myself about how many people is healthy, particularly while I've got a tiny little one. I've got a young child because I need my emotional space for her. And I'm aware that if it all goes into the therapy room, I have nothing left when I come home. And I think I could do that when I didn't have children, but I can't do that anymore. That's something I've became really aware of that actually I need to look after me too in order to do good work clinically, but also in order to be the mom I want to be to my kids.

(: 14:26

I think that's important. Finding your balance as well, not just in hours of working, but the type of work that you do. I think some cases will take up a lot more space, emotionally thinking space, all of that stuff than others. So I think it is important learning. Where's your limit and how do you protect yourself as well through supervision, through having strategies like exercising. So I love yoga. I always walk in the woods. I got myself a dog and he's like my therapy dog because I have to take him for a walk every day. And that is helpful. It helps my brain and my body disconnect from work, relax. And we go into nature, we go into the woods and we go into Parklands and suddenly I just feel better when I get back into the house. And he is my therapy dog. Like fact, he's a gun dog. So he says, but he is perfect for me. His energy and how he is is absolutely what I need to give me that break to give me that release. So then when I do school pickup, I'm in mum mode rather than still in work mode. I think all those things are really important to learn.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 15:39

It really is. Thanks for sharing that about your little self-care rituals. It sounds really important. Bonnie, before we hit record, you were kind of talking about the experience of trying to apply for an assistant psych role and you said, I applied for 80 jobs. I didn't even get interviews. It's not always easy, is it? These jobs don't always come to you. And so if anyone is feeling like when will it come? When will it come? What's the point? This is the point. We are both qualified psychs. We both struggled to get AP roles. We both had a lucky chance eventually that meant that we got second in an interview, but then ended up getting the job and we both shared that as a mutual experience and that change the game for us both.

Dr Martha Deiros Collado (: 16:30

Yeah, I think it's really important to, I guess for me to, well there's a couple of things, but if you really want it, I think just keep going and don't define your worth on whether or not you get through an interview. It's luck most of the time. It doesn't mean you're not going to be good at it. Look at you, look at me. And I guess people might see me on Instagram and be like, oh my gosh, he's got all these followers. I'm like, yeah, but that doesn't matter. Honestly, that doesn't matter. I think getting an assistant job nearly broke me and I did ask myself, should I do this? I carried on because I was like, I feel like this is what I want to do, so I'm not going to give up. And I even worked. I don't even know if they do this anymore.

(: 17:15

I really hope they don't. I don't think it's, it's appropriate. I'm going to use this word, it might be too big. Please don't hate me. I think it's slightly abusive and it targets vulnerable young people who want to get into a profession. But I worked in honorary posts before I got my assistant job. I'm pretty sure that's how I ended up getting an assistant job. But I didn't get paid a penny and I worked full hours. I don't think that's okay. I am putting it out there into the world. I don't think that's okay because I then had to work in other jobs to get money because how else was I going to survive in London? So I think it's really unfair. I think we need to honour the fact that young people who want to join a profession like ours are usually very hardworking, very dedicated, very committed to what they want to do because I mean, I'm going to say it now, but to me the NHS is a vocational job.

(: 18:19

You're not going to be a multimillionaire. That's not why people work in the NHS. People work in the NHS because they want to help and they care a hundred percent. I have never met somebody in the NHS who's like, I'm in this for the money. You go work in a bank or you go and work for a big business, you don't work for the NHS. So yeah, I think if this is your calling, persevere, keep going. Do not take any kind of, you came second or you didn't make it as I'm a failure. You are not. Somebody on that day just did a better job than you, but one day it's going to be you. But also two, if you get to the point of going, oh, this is breaking me. Definitely think about something else. Psychology is not the best thing in the world either, is kind of what I want to say.

(: 19:08

Even despite everything I've said because I love it. It doesn't mean it's the only job you can do. So I've got a friend who got on the course and he was so lovely. I think it would've been incredible in a therapy room. I was ever in a therapy room with him, but it's in my imagination. And he quit. And that might sound like really harsh, but I think he had the courage to say, this job is not for me. And he's a social worker. He just said, this isn't for me. I know I got here. I know I watch hard to get here. Guess what? It's not what I want. That takes courage to kind of say, I've tried and I've worked hard, but there's something else I think is my calling. And there are so many different things out there, so many other jobs that you can do that can still be psychology related or working alongside.

(: 20:01

And you are not less than. I hate that idea. To me, they're all my colleagues. There's no more than less than absolutely not. And I know the NHS lives on a hierarchy, but you don't have to follow it in the way that you relate to people. You connect with people the way that you work with people. For me, working in a multidisciplinary team in the NHS was one of the most beautiful things and it is the biggest thing that I miss now a thousand percent, no doubt about it. It's my team, the physios, the speech and therapists, the dietitians, the doctors, I miss them all. We all brought different knowledge, different experiences, different insights about one family and together it just brought such a rich picture. So if you are stuck and you think I'm not moving forward and I've been trying and I'm really struggling, genuinely think where else would I fit in this picture?

(: 20:58

What else would bring me joy? Where else would I still get the things I want to get from psychology but in a different profession? Because that profession might be just right for you. It might not be your second choice. It might actually have been the right choice. I believe that. I really believe that. And I have more than that friend that I talked about. I have other experiences of people who've done exactly that, become psychologists and then retrained and become physios and OTs and gone, this is what I wanted to do. But it's taken them becoming a psychologist to realise it's that job that I wanted. So it's okay. It's okay to change your mind. The time you've spent applying for jobs or working as an assistant or whatever it is, is not wasted. I hear that all the time. Young people going, I can't waste the last five years of my life. They're not wasted. You've got skills, you've got knowledge, you've got tonnes of experience. You can repackage it in a different shape and move forward with that.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 21:57

That's such an important message. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I know that's going to be real comfort and food for thought for so many people. Just before we finish, could you tell us about your two books, which you have available and where we can get those?

Dr Martha Deiros Collado (: 22:13

So my first book, which was a bestseller two years ago, is called How to Be the Grownup. And it's a parenting book with a bit of a twist for me because it's about offering psychological knowledge on child development, brain development, things that I feel should be general knowledge but are not things that I feel should probably be taught in schools, but they're not. And packaging it in a way that is kind of like a toolkit. So you can flick to the chapter that you want to look at, talking about sex, talking about death, thinking about separation, whatever it is, and find strategies, ideas, all based on psychological theory and knowledge. And a lot of my clinical experiences is in there. Lots of ideas that have been shaped through working with families are in there. So some of them might not be proved science, but they're things I've used in the therapy room and I use a lot of, and I've kind of repackaged them for parents, for families, for grandparents, for teachers.

(: 23:15

So hopefully that's useful as a kind of foundation from little ones up to teenage. And then my last chapter, I slightly talk about adult children because I feel like I wanted to touch on that when your kids become grownups, the relationship you might want to maintain with them. And my second book, which comes out on the 28th of August probably will have come out when this podcast goes out, is called the Smartphone Solution. And it feels like a big privilege to have written this book because I wrote it to support parents with a different kind of toolkit and set of ideas around the fear that surrounds us with smartphones and how we offer them to our children when we offer them to our children. Should we just ban them? And instead, hopefully what I do is offer you some of the science and I am critical of it because I think that's important, but hopefully builds awareness for you so that you can make healthy choices for you and your kids and hopefully embed them as healthy habits in your home through what I call the family phone pledge. So you are all in it together. You are all promising. A pledge is a promise, not a contract. You are promising that the most important part in your home is being together, not having your phone on you. And I think from that place you can start to make small tweaks that might make you as a parent feel better about your phone usage, but also I'm hoping in control and empowered of what your child gets to do with their phone.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 24:53

Amazing. Thank you so much. And where can people follow you on Instagram? Give us your Instagram handle.

Dr Martha Deiros Collado (: 25:02

It's Dr. Marta psychologist. And yeah, my name is spelled Martha because my dad thought, oh, a silent H would be so interesting not realising I'd speak English one day.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 25:15

Okay, amazing. And we talk about consultation in psychology, don't we? This is what you're doing with your books. You are offering your knowledge in a consultation model so that it reaches a wider audience. And even your time in speaking to my audience today, the Aspiring Psych podcast. We're so grateful for your time and you've got so many wise words, so thank you for doing what you do, keep doing what you do and wishing you the very best of luck with your second books and beyond.

Dr Martha Deiros Collado (: 25:46

Thank you. It's been lovely talking to you. Thank you so much.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 25:49

You too. Thank you again so much for Dr. Marta Dero Kato's time. Really enjoyed our chat and we chatted for hours. We just gave you those bits. We probably could have recorded all the intro chat as well and that would've been really interesting. Maybe one day I'll do a behind the scenes and you'll get to listen into the bits where we just shoot in the breeze. Let me know in the comments if you'd find that helpful too. Thank you so much for being here. Honestly, part of this 200th episode celebration, it means the world to me that you guys like what we do and that you say such lovely things about the podcast. It's a labour of love, it really is. But I do love it and you guys help keep me accountable as well because as you know, it's a weekly podcast and podcasts are hungry beasts and I do it all myself at my own expense too.

(: 26:46

So thank you for showing up for listening. Please do like and subscribe. Please do drop me a comment if you're watching on YouTube and you can also comment on episodes on Spotify too. I promise you I respond to every comment I receive wherever I see them. So yeah, please don't be a stranger. If you love something, let me know. If you don't like something, let me know too. So let me take a moment to share some of the lovely feedback that I've been receiving about the podcast over on YouTube we had at Caroline O'Leary about the new identity through psychology, the police officer to Trainee Insight with Claire Dunn. This was very interesting and inspiring. I would love to hear more non-conventional stories like this. So thank you so much for your comment, Caroline, and for watching. And to you dear listener and dear, watch out.

(: 27:35

Would you find that helpful as well? Do let me know in the comments and on the episode that I did with Jack about job crafting and making the most of your nons psychology experience had a lovely comment from Catherine Keyworth. Job crafting is such a helpful concept as someone contemplating a radical career change into psychology. This is the perfect inspiration to reflect on my existing work experience with a new lens and help me highlight my relevant skills to a potential employer. Thank you Jack and Marianne for introducing me to a really helpful new approach to facilitating a career change. You are so welcome, Catherine. And over on Spotify. I've had some lovely comments coming through most recently for the episode I did with Kelly. Loves see about what happens if you start your job and you hate it. GL said in the same situation. Now for me it's the culture.

(: 28:24

Being at a new job for a month, but really struggling with the way nobody speaks to each other. No one takes lunch breaks and work overtime. Daily feels like a silent judgement . If you don't, it feels like it's not the fit for me. And Robbie alone says, I left my job a few months ago after only being there for a couple of months, and so much of this resonates with me. I really love this episode. It's so nice hearing someone talk about this topic. You are so welcome, Robbie alone. So yeah, don't be a stranger. Let me know what you think to this content. And like I said, thank you so much for being here. What would you want the next a hundred episodes of the podcast to look like? What guests would you love to learn more about? What topic areas would you love to explore?

(: 29:06

Do you have an idea you'd like to pitch to the podcast so that you could come on? Do let me know. Come and follow me on socials where I'm Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere. Do check out the Aspiring Psychologist Collective book, the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. And if it's your time and you're ready for the next step in your career, do check out the Aspiring Psychologist membership and the ready to rise programme. Don't forget to grab your free Psychology success guide by heading to my website, www aspiring psychologist.co.uk. Thank you again from the bottom of my heart for being here. Please do follow the show. Please do subscribe to the show. Don't be a stranger. Comment like share your favourite episodes with your friends. If you're looking to become a psychologist.

Jingle Guy (: 29:59

Then with this podcast you'll be on your to being qualified, the psychologist with Dr.