Baby Bonding Activities: Why Bathing & Water Play Build Attachment

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:00

Water is so much more than just a way to keep our children and ourselves clean. It can be a powerful tool for bonding, calming the nervous system and laying the foundations for trust and confidence. Whether you are a parent looking to feel more confident with your newborn or a professional, curious about how sensory experiences shape attachment, this conversation is for you. I'm Dr. Marianne, a clinical psychologist, and today I'm joined by Joe from Aquas Sensory where we'll be exploring how water from Bathtime to baby swimming can nurture connection and resilience like and subscribe for more. Hi, welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist podcast. I'm Dr. Marianne, a qualified clinical psychologist, and I am joined here today by Joe Wilson. Welcome along Joe.

Jo Wilson (: 00:45

Oh, thank you so much. Hi everybody.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 00:48

So before we dive into who you are and all of that stuff, why is water such a powerful medium really for helping bonding with babies?

Jo Wilson (: 01:00

I think sometimes we underestimate the power of water. Actually, I think water just happens to be around and it's like a commodity really, but water is so meaningful, it can really, really teach us. At the end of the day, it's natural and it is so accessible, but for me it's like a pure presence. When you are so busy in the daytime, you've always got divided attention, but water, what it does, it demands our a hundred percent attention and that's the message that I always give to my parents as well because you do have to be really respectful around water and you always have to supervise. So I have a little tagline that I always share with all my swim families and I always say it's all about a hundred percent attention, not divided attention. And that has a real powerful meaning for presence with the baby. But also you are in a medium if you are in a swimming pool that is very much skin to skin or of course if you are in the bath as well, baby's in the bath and they're really enjoying that activity. But it's an activity that you can be with your baby so very much with your baby rather than doing things to your baby. Lots of things out there that you have to do, but this is more of an activity that you can really, really enjoy together. Almost like mutual delight.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 02:30

Yeah, absolutely. And in a world where we are so switched on where we often might have a phone in our hands, this is an opportunity to be screen free. And I think really it's reminding me of some of the kind of infant parent observation stuff that we might get in psychology looking at the quality of that eye gaze, looking at being attuned really and following your baby's lead. Could you tell us a little bit about how you see that unfold with babies and parents?

Jo Wilson (: 03:02

Yeah, so when we are with babies in water, the nice thing is that a lot of the time we are down at their eye level as well. And again, you talked about eye contact, that's really lovely to really just follow their lead. And sometimes babies, they have to just have that sensory break. They gaze away, but they can come in. But you are in a much closer contact situation with your baby. And a lot of the time if you're in a swimming pool or in the bath, you've got be beautiful skin to skin as well, which is really, really nice. But what we are doing is we are really feeling into baby's cues and do they like their bath? How are they feeling today? Are they a little bit fussy or are they really active and ready for their bath? So I think baby is really able to present how they're feeling as well. And because as you say, we have less distractions we can pick up and we can really attune our cues as well.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 04:03

Yeah, I remember, I think I was probably day three or day four when I had my first baby who you got to know a little bit as well and we'll talk about that shortly. But it was like the three day sort of weep really. I was so overcome. I'd had a section, I was stealing in loads of pain. My milk was all coming in and I was sitting on the toilet lid closed as my husband was running a bath for him and I think it was probably his first bath. And I was just holding him waiting for the, I think I was holding him naked cause he is ready to get in the bath, ready for him to get in the water. I was just crying and I was just like, I just love him. I just love him. But there's something about those very early days and those very early experiences and trying to get it right. I think he might even have been crying at the time. How do we begin to support those very early parts, especially if they are crying or they're upset, it's really difficult. We've got all of these hormones going on, we are sleep deprived. If we're thinking about the very early days, I mean mine didn't sleep for 20 months, that first one, but it's just really hard, Joe. How do we try and be mindful? How do we try and be respectful of that process? It's going to be very different to what they're used to as well.

Jo Wilson (: 05:24

And I think what we've got to be reminded is that every baby's different. So there's a lot of babies that have a natural affinity to water and they find water really soothing and calming. So if you have got a fuzzy baby, perhaps water is going to be the absolute perfect place that's going to really, really calm them down and it's going to really soothe them. Particularly for before bed, you can start a little routine. Of course there are some babies that they have just that tiny little bit more extra stimulation and then that can actually just be too much. The important message for anybody really in parents and caregivers is that bath time doesn't actually have to be the same time of day. We are really tuning into when baby is ready. A lot of the time we think about it has to be at the end of the day, but I would say, when is good for you and when is good for baby And it's okay to make a few mistakes because baby is just always forgiving us for trying. And I think the important thing is just being together in that moment.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 06:31

And I have to confess, I don't think I am the funnest of parents, Jo. I think I am cuddly. I'm nurturing for whatever reason, maybe my own developmental experiences. I don't think I'm super fun. And so my husband always used to do way more fun baths than I did. How can we empower people to make bath time fun and nurturing?

Jo Wilson (: 06:59

So I always come back to almost like a little bit of a sensory five. So you have got your voice and babies love our sing some voices so we don't even have to sing or do rhymes, but they just love when we are talking to them. Talking through the bath time as well. Adding in simple words, a splashing and just making up things. Baby loves that movement in the bath. Babies love to wriggle and of course on dry land they're quite fixed, but in the bath there is so much more free movement. And then we have got that beautiful eye contact as well that I was saying they really, really love us when we're just watching and looking together. And then adding in just a really simple bath toy. So nothing too much could be just some plastic balls or a simple cup. So really, really simple things for babies in the bath. Definitely

Dr Marianne Trent (: 07:59

One of my favourite things and something that I've still got actually was from a friend who'd had a baby I think around the same time as me. And she bought us a set of 10 stacking cups and all of them had slightly different holes in the bottom. So they all came out slightly differently and we used those so much and we actually still use the big blue one in our bathroom to keep all our toothpaste in because they've been such a part of our story. It was really hard to let them go. But yeah, you might just enjoy this, but I know if people are thinking about baby swimming as a rite of passage, and I would say I loved it. So I did it with you with my youngest and I loved it. It was such a special time. But I'm guessing you probably get parents that are actually scared of water or maybe aren't swimmers themselves. How do you encourage 'em to still think that maybe that's something they should do with their baby?

Jo Wilson (: 08:52

So I always say start at home in the, and I think there are just so many things that you can do for water acclimatisation, and I think that can just break barriers really of just knowing that your baby is comfortable in the water and go into lovely splashy moments and things like that and you think, oh actually yeah, let's try it. And I think the environment is really important. So going to a pool that you perhaps know and it's really familiar or just going and having a walk around before you even get into the pool and talking to the teacher if you are going to a class or just people around the pool if it's just an open session. And I would always say check the water temperature as well. I think some pools can be quite cold. So I'd say pick a nice warm pool, particularly if you are with your baby and just know the areas of the pool so you don't have to, I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves, we have to swim, but no going there, just holding baby, being together in the water and even walking around is absolutely fine.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 10:01

Yeah, it's hard, isn't it, when you've got a baby on a schedule as well. If it's like your swim lesson time is usual nap time or lunchtime or when you'd usually feed them, I remember thinking, oh, what if he's going to be asleep? Or it is really hard to disrupt that. But I think we also need to think about actually, yeah, routine is essential. It's kind of good for our own sanity. My babies didn't get that memo, they didn't really do schedules, but it's still important. And I think for our own mental health as parents, it's still important that we are doing things together. I really love baby massage, I really love baby swimming with you because it's that reciprocal thing, but it's something that gets you out of the house as well. Otherwise your life could become very insular. And I think even beginning to think that I can't go out by myself or I can't do this or it really matters isn't these activities, they're not just maternity or paternity leave rites of passage. We are creating and developing those very early attachment relationships that we hope will become long-term lovely relationships in future.

Jo Wilson (: 11:17

And it's a relationship that we are building with our baby, but also others as well. And I think we mustn't forget babies. Babies, we're all born social little humans and they love being with other babies as well. It's so nice in Nepal or if you've got people around the house as well when they just see and it's just that surprise, isn't it? But I think in the water, I don't know if you've heard of the Blue Mind theory, that there's actually a lot of science and research that water has a way, a magic way of actually releasing happy hormones in the brain. And people that are in water or around water are actually happier as well. So there's lots of research around the blue mind. So yeah, I think if we are a little bit low or a bit tired or yeah, let's see if we can maybe run a bath or go to the pool.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 12:17

I love that. And it's making me think about people that live by the sea and regularly get in the water. They said, let me seem pretty happy. They and our bath broke a couple of years ago, Joe and the whole bathroom has needed fixing and just tearing out and it's something we've never quite got round to. But when we were on holiday in the summer, we had a lovely bath and myself and my youngest would be using that bath daily. You're not together at this age, but daily. And it, I just thought, oh, I so love a bath. I'm probably a more bath person than a shower person. And it's really made me think, yeah, we do need to get this bathroom situation sorted because I need my regular baths.

Jo Wilson (: 13:02

Yeah, well everybody's different. And they did a lot of different research that even listening to water, seeing any types of water so you don't actually have to live near water as well. And I think that's the interesting thing. So there is almost like a primitive instinct built in with us that maybe it's because we know how important water is because we have to have it for life, that we are primed almost to be attracted to water. So listening to water and seeing bodies of water. So that might be really helpful for anybody that is really supporting people with mental health to think about some sort of bringing water into therapy as well.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 13:47

Yeah, that's so important, isn't it? And we've got the whole kind of whim, hof cold water movement and stuff, but actually it's just really lovely to be in water to develop your own rituals around water. And I think like you said, to be really mindful of thinking about how that water feels on your skin. And yeah, I find that I think very different thoughts. It helps me to think more clearly when I'm relaxed and in water. Yeah, I love that. I love that idea, Joe. And you can develop your own sense, you can really up level the sensory. Can't you think about your favourite bath oil scent or always, this is a little spoiler alert. Every bath I've had, probably for the last 10 or 15 years, I have listened to the Ray Lamont trouble album. I would declare that to be the perfect bath soundtrack every bath. So for me, I just love that ritualistic nature of that and just the thoughts that come. Yeah, I love it. But also we are born from amniotic fluid. We, we've been surrounded in water for the whole of our gestation and I wonder if that's something about the power of water.

Jo Wilson (: 15:13

I'm sure it is. And I think also just our nervous systems have an almost social connection. So if we are building that ritual up and we know that feeling, even if we've had a bad day, again, just the music, the sound of the bath, something inside doesn't, it switches over and goes, oh, I know what this is. And it's just like, oh yeah. So I think there's nothing better at the end of the day to have a bath yourself if you feel like, oh, I really, really need to, or yeah, if your baby is just needing that time with you as well, so that I would always suggest have a little think about introducing some water rituals together. Definitely.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 15:57

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's thinking about making that shift with even bath times from, oh, I've got to do this or this is a thing we must do to thinking about it as an activity, something to be enjoyed and look forward to. And I really like the idea of maybe thinking about when you do that in the day when they're most receptive to that, rather than thinking, oh God, we've got to do that at the end of every day. Or when maybe your resources are sap, maybe the baby's resources are sapped as well. It's respecting both of you really. It

Jo Wilson (: 16:34

Is. And I think also that we just underestimate the power of water and there's so many times when it's there and it's accessible, it's free and it's natural. And I think sometimes just because it's there, we forget about it. We, but yeah, definitely that I think thinking about in water in a different way, in a mindful way is different mind shift for people.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 17:06

And you've made water your whole career, certainly since you became a parent anyway. And I remember when we were in the pool together and it was probably the end of the lesson and you were like, oh, I've got this dream to have my own pool one day. And then at the end of our sessions, I think you then opened your first pool. I think you've now got a couple of pools and it really is, it's become your life's mission, hasn't it?

Jo Wilson (: 17:34

Yeah, I mean I was really fortunate that as a child, I always used to spend a lot of time in water with my dad. And I think that that built that almost foundation relationship. And then when I was made redundant on maternity leave, when you're just searching, you're thinking, oh, I dunno what to do. I just happened to land and I was taking him a little boy baby swim, and this is going back 22 years now, and I was a little bit low at the time. I didn't have a lot of friends, I moved areas. So it was almost that as we've been talking about that postnatal support group as well. So I really lent into my friends group through swimming. So it definitely had much more of that emotional attachment. When I got made redundant with my daughter, it was almost like there just presenting.

(: 18:17

I was like, right, fine. So it was almost like a path. And when I was hiring Pauls, I just felt that yeah, we could be doing this a little bit different. The environment needs to be different for babies, warmer, lots of different new facilities, and I wanted to create much more of a community connection. So it was really tough building our own pools. But yeah, I absolutely love our swim families and the community that we're building. And then through just introducing now out to others and more of saying, look, the bath can be that first step to the pool and really helping and supporting others with that as well.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 19:01

Yeah, what I liked about your approach, Joe, it was so respectful of the baby. We're not chucking them in, we're not dunking them straight away. We're not putting those funny little floaty things on their heads and letting them float off by themselves. It was really empowering to respect the baby and to gently introduce a few splashes to their face of the water so that they could see that for themselves and just to be baby led. I think sometimes we did gently pull baby underwater, but only when we thought that that would be okay. And I hope I'm not remiss remembering that, Joe. I think that does happen at some points in the lessons, but it's empowering you to think about what's right for your baby, what's right for you and them on any given day. I really loved, really loved your way, and I found it really empowering actually as a first time mom, just to think about how to do these things and to give me confidence.

Jo Wilson (: 20:02

And I think what's interesting over the 15 years, or particularly when you were swimming as well, things have changed and we've become much more attuned. So as you said, when we were teaching babies, then we're always very respectful. We gave them a cue, we thought they were ready. We look for those cues, those bright eyes leaning forward, and we allow them into the water. Now we're really, really tuned into taking, again, much more of a little bit more of a just that step back and rather than holding baby, we are really now allowing their very first underwater dip themselves. So baby swimming is really, really changing in the uk, not so much around the world, but I think one of these things might sort of catch up. But yeah, we do have a lot of different practises worldwide, and I'm a massive advocate of child-led baby swimming because, well, at the end of the day, you want your children to be happier and safer and to, for me, be connected to the water rather than just building in built fears really.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 21:11

And I think one of the limiting factors can be the cost of baby swimming because you're having smaller groups and of course the very high overheads of running a pool or hiring a pool. It's not easy. It's easy to think about the companies as being mercenary, how can they dare charge us that much? But the overheads are really high and it's not the same as having a whole big leisure centre full of paying customers. And so it is going to be perhaps more expensive. I think you guys are the most expensive baby class I did, but I would say it was worth it. And what I learned from that and what I took from that with my son, I think it was really, really important.

Jo Wilson (: 21:56

Oh, thank you. I think it just works on all different levels, isn't it? It's a class for us. It's a class for baby, but I think also just long-term, we know that we're giving them the best start developmentally as well. Swimming has one of those magical ways of just crossing all the brain domains, the cognitive, the social, the speech language, all there. So I would say if parents were looking for any class, baby swim and pop it up there. Or if you can't go to classes, then definitely, definitely go yourself. There shouldn't really be any barrier to go into water or having water at home, really start there.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 22:39

And you've got new classes as well, like bath time classes. Could you tell us about those?

Jo Wilson (: 22:45

Yes, thank you. Well just love really celebrating the fourth trimester and just slowing it all down. And I do think that sometimes rushing to the pool isn't always baby led. I mean talking about the first maybe two months and the bath can be the perfect place and sometimes just being in that social environment. So if you can think of a little bit of a nurturing church, baby massage mixed with Baby Swim, that's what we've created. It's really unique. It's called Bath Babies, and it's a time where we're really celebrating together, really making sure babies are seen and heard, giving parents really nice bath time tips. And it's really, really good fun as well. But for me it's just making early water experiences special, but also it is making things much more accessible because I must admit, or before I started Bath Babies, I didn't have an appreciation of how many people perhaps were a bit fearful of going into water themselves or cultural differences or skin or healing from birth, anything really. I didn't have a huge appreciation. So Bath Babies is actually almost like bridging a gap as well, making early water really accessible. So I'm really super excited to bring that to my local community, but also to others as well, supporting others, setting up their own bath babies.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 24:20

And before we hit record, we were talking about actually this is a really nice opportunity potentially for people who want to build more experience with clinically relevant populations to perhaps take this into their own hands and think, actually maybe I could set up a little practise of teaching these B classes to people so that it could work with postnatal populations and parent and baby dyads. I think it's potentially something that I would've been really interested in earlier in my career for sure. Could you tell us a bit about how those kind of training, training the trainers courses would work, Joe?

Jo Wilson (: 25:02

Yeah, sure. So I'm an aqua tutor and the course has been accredited by Sims Spa, which is what I say is like the offstead of aquas in the uk. All the swim qualifications are accredited and off Sims Spa have accredited bath babies. So that's really important, first of all, that people are getting approved and quality training. And secondly, I like to work with people in all sorts of different ways, whether it's online, but the idea is that at the end when they're setting up their case studies, they can actually run and be really confident to run their own classes. So we are really appealing to anybody that is working with children not to five, and they want to set up classes, but it can be supportive classes, it could be parents that have had really sensitive, or babies that have had sensitive beginnings as well. You can go down a little more of a sort of therapeutic way if that is your foundation base. But essentially what we are doing is we are creating safe spaces. We are celebrating that fourth trimester and be in together. And then the water's there sort of holding that space as well. And I like to say water can be our teacher as well go in with the flow. There are so many different messages that the water can actually teach us and hold those classes together really.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 26:34

Yeah, I think if I was working in a postnatal service where I was doing in-person work, I would absolutely be saying I think at least one of us needs to be trained to be able to do this lovely level of intervention with parents to support that bonding. So that's another avenue where can people learn more about you and your work, Joe? And if people did want in-person baby swimming, where are your pools?

Jo Wilson (: 27:01

Thank you. So I'm based in Warwickshire. I've got two pools, one in rugby, one in Leamington Spa, but I do an awful lot of work online as well. So through sensory. And the programme is called Bath Babies, and I have a book on Amazon and what I did is I set it at the lowest price so it's really accessible for parents. So it's 2 99 Kindle 3 99 print, and it's called Bath Babies Creating Beautiful Bonds in Water. And it pretty much sums up what we've been talking today, that mindful way and gives some practises as well.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 27:37

Amazing. Thank you so much for your time, and thank you so much for everything that you do for these developing bonds and relationships with babies and their caregivers. It's really important.

Jo Wilson (: 27:48

Oh, thank you for having me.

Dr Marianne Trent (: 27:50

You're so welcome. Thank you so much to my guest, Jo today. I still do think back very fondly on my time with her in the pool with my eldest child. How has this episode been for you? I would love to know, please do drop a comment if watching on YouTube. Please do like and subscribe wherever you are watching the show and let me know what content you would find helpful in future too, if you are working with new parents or you are a new parent yourself or want to support or reach out to someone who is, I also really recommend a book by one of my colleagues. It's called Mindful New Mom, and it's by Dr. Caroline Boyd. It really is a lovely, lovely nourishing read, I would say, for thinking about how to support mothers or how to support yourself in the postnatal period. So yeah, that gets my seal of approval as well as baby swimming.

Jingle Guy (: 28:49

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